EDL watch

[Streathamite]

I wonder what effect such signs would have upon muslims who didnt buy into the whole use of language around 'islamist,' 'jihadi,' etc. People who were defensive of their religion, and didn't particularly know the organisers of the demo. They are amongst the very people we are trying to pull to such events, but putting signs like that up will surely put them off, no?

I think that, fundamentally, you have to give your audience - muslims and non-muslims alike - some credit for intelligence. If you make it clear you are specifically opposed most of all to jihadism, but also to 'hard' Islamism of the Hizb-ut Tahrir brand, but welcome all others, of all faiths and none, in a broad front against fascism and racism, you will make the right impression, convey the message you want to, to enough of the minds you want to reach, whilst stopping the EDL scoring a propaganda hit

 

[SpineyNorman]

I think that, fuindamentally, you have to give your audience - muslims and non-muslims alike - some credit for intelligence. If you make it clear you are specifically opposed most of all to jihadism, but also to 'hard' Islamism of the Hizb-ut Tahrir brand, but welcome all others, of all faiths and none, in a broad front against fascism and racism, you will make the right impression, convey the message you want to, to enough of the minds you want to reach, whilst stopping the EDL scoring a propaganda hit

Spot on mate.

 

[Streathamite]

True - though I can't say I'm any more comfortable with Islamists (as opposed to Muslims) than I would be with Christian reconstructionists.

neither would I be - however, we'd probably both be a lot safer, and it's even worse to be seen as fellow-travelling with acolytes of Terror

 

[Citizen66]

and what is this far, far more attention exactly? shouting scum! all day long and offering nothing political apart from a wet-arsed defence of islamist flag wavers?

 

[framed]

Suicide Terror and the ‘Politics of Pity’

A recent contribution to the TAL blog

 

[belboid]

I think that, fundamentally, you have to give your audience - muslims and non-muslims alike - some credit for intelligence. If you make it clear you are specifically opposed most of all to jihadism, but also to 'hard' Islamism of the Hizb-ut Tahrir brand, but welcome all others, of all faiths and none, in a broad front against fascism and racism, you will make the right impression, convey the message you want to, to enough of the minds you want to reach, whilst stopping the EDL scoring a propaganda hit

I dont have a problem with that, although I doubt it would really make any difference. If there's anyone there with something written in Arabic some fucker will claim its jihadist, just opposing the EDL is enough for them.

 

[Streathamite]

I should explain, just in case I've inadvertently misled anyone, that when I was talking about the big 'not welcome' sign, I was speaking figuratively. I meant that in ALL the messages/communications given out by left groups engaged in anti-EDL campaigns, they should have made it clear from the start - loud and clear -that they oppose the politics of hardline Islamism just as much as they do those of the EDL, for fairly similar reasons; they are both fundamentally reactionary, divisive, and driven by exploiting the fear of the other (amongst other reasons too numerous to list here).

 

[Citizen66]

Which the SWP do not do. In fact they've given Islamists platforms.

 

[Streathamite]

Which the SWP do not do. In fact they've given Islamists platforms.

Absolutely. And I'm kicking myself as I meant to add that to my post. By their fuckwitted relativism and cuddling up to various shades of Islamist (being fair and to the best of my knowledge, they've not 'walked out' with outright jihadists - yet), they/UAF totally shot themselves in the foot.
Which wouldn't be a bad thing except that - inevitably - they end up shooting every other anti-fash person, campaign and organisation as well.

 

[J Ed]

Which the SWP do not do. In fact they've given Islamists platforms.

Right, it's not that Muslims sympathetic to socialist ideas don't exist, they do, it's that they're more often than not the ones being killed by the Islamists the SWP apologise on behalf of (and this violent far-right Islamist suppression of leftists in the Muslim world has been going on for decades at the behest of MI6 and the CIA). What sort of message does that send to the Muslims who belboid wants to be the ones to confront groups like Hizb ut-Tahrir?

 

[J Ed]

Absolutely. And I'm kicking myself as I meant to add that to my post. By their fuckwitted relativism and cuddling up to various shades of Islamist (being fair and to the best of my knowledge, they've not 'walked out' with outright jihadists - yet)

Actually...

 

[SpineyNorman]

I dont have a problem with that, although I doubt it would really make any difference. If there's anyone there with something written in Arabic some fucker will claim its jihadist, just opposing the EDL is enough for them.

It is clearly easier to counter people who say it's jihadist when it's just a harmless Arabic peace slogan or summmat than when it actually is jihadist though, wouldn't you agree?

 

[protesticals]

and all jihadists look like him? What about the rest? I answered your previous question already

All EDL look like TR?

 

[Streathamite]

Actually...

aahh...reactionary Islamists to be sure, and I don't know much about the situation in Bangladesh, but are you sure the Feb28 mob support terror?

 

[protesticals]

It is clearly easier to counter people who say it's jihadist when it's just a harmless Arabic peace slogan or summmat than when it actually is jihadist though, wouldn't you agree?

Which groups in the UK use a black flag with white arabic lettering who are actually peace groups?

 

[protesticals]

The Feb 28 movement are utterly repulsive but after the SWP's rape fiasco it seems there are no depths to which they will not descend.

 

[protesticals]

This is what the Feb 28th movement (as supported by the SWP) believe in

1. Reinstatement of ‘Absolute trust and faith in Allah’ in the constitution of Bangladesh and abolishment of all laws which are in conflict with the values of the Quran and Sunnah
2. Enactment of (anti-defamation) law at the parliament keeping death penalty as the highest form of punishment to prevent defamation of Allah, Muhammad (S.A.W) and Islam, and prevent spreading hate against Muslims (highest penalty prevalent for defamation is 10 years).
3. Immediate end to the negative propaganda by all atheist bloggers in a leading role in the so called Shahbag movement who have defamed Allah, Mohammad (S.A.W), and Islam and their exemplary punishment.
4. End to all alien cultural practices like immodesty, lewdness, misconduct, culture of free mixing of the sexes, candle lighting in the name of personal freedom and free speech.
5. Abolishment of the anti-Islamic inheritance law and the ungodly education policy. Making Islamic education compulsory in all levels from primary to higher secondary.
6. Declaration of Ahmadis as non-Muslims by the government and put a stop to their negative and conspirational activities.

Frankly the SWP should be no platformed.​

 

[SpineyNorman]

Which groups in the UK use a black flag with white arabic lettering who are actually peace groups?

I have no idea. Why is that relevant?

 

[protesticals]

I wonder what effect such signs would have upon muslims who didnt buy into the whole use of language around 'islamist,' 'jihadi,' etc. People who were defensive of their religion, and didn't particularly know the organisers of the demo. They are amongst the very people we are trying to pull to such events, but putting signs like that up will surely put them off, no?

Especailly when you get the pedantic muslim who goes 'well, technically I am a jihadist, because I know what the word means and it isn't all about the violent struggle against non-believers at all.'

Any Muslims who have a problem with condemning of Jihadis or Islamists are not people I care about offending. Ditto about 'working class white people' who might be offended against condemning of the EDL.

TheIslamacists are a vastly more dangerous force than Tommy Robinson's motley crew.

Btw which side does '' Party Notes"order you to support now that Hezbollah and Hamas despise each other?

 

[protesticals]

I have no idea. Why is that relevant?

because youquoted above that such a flag might be such a group which seems absurdly unlikley.

 

[Pickman's model]

Btw which side does '' Party Notes"order you to support now that Hezbollah and Hamas despise each other?

hezbollah when you're talking to hezbollah and hamas when you're talking to hamas. but be sure of your audience before speaking. also, in a mixed audience say 'i support the palestinian people' and leave it vague.

 

[SpineyNorman]

All EDL look like TR?

What on earth are you wittering on about?

 

[SpineyNorman]

because it was quoted above that such a flag might be such a group which seems absurdly unlikley.

No it wasn't. Have another look.

 

[Pickman's model]

This is what the Feb 28th movement (as supported by the SWP) believe in

1. Reinstatement of ‘Absolute trust and faith in Allah’ in the constitution of Bangladesh and abolishment of all laws which are in conflict with the values of the Quran and Sunnah​

2. Enactment of (anti-defamation) law at the parliament keeping death penalty as the highest form of punishment to prevent defamation of Allah, Muhammad (S.A.W) and Islam, and prevent spreading hate against Muslims (highest penalty prevalent for defamation is 10 years).​

3. Immediate end to the negative propaganda by all atheist bloggers in a leading role in the so called Shahbag movement who have defamed Allah, Mohammad (S.A.W), and Islam and their exemplary punishment.​

4. End to all alien cultural practices like immodesty, lewdness, misconduct, culture of free mixing of the sexes, candle lighting in the name of personal freedom and free speech.​

5. Abolishment of the anti-Islamic inheritance law and the ungodly education policy. Making Islamic education compulsory in all levels from primary to higher secondary.​

6. Declaration of Ahmadis as non-Muslims by the government and put a stop to their negative and conspirational activities.​

​

Frankly the SWP should be no platformed.​

the only SAW i am aware of is the american squad automatick weapon.

 

[protesticals]

What on earth are you wittering on about?

Read back a bit...theres a dear.

 

[belboid]

Any Muslims who have a problem with condemning of Jihadis or Islamists are not people I care about offending. Ditto about 'working class white people' who might be offended against condemning of the EDL.

TheIslamacists are a vastly more dangerous force than Tommy Robinson's motley crew.

Btw which side does '' Party Notes"order you to support now that Hezbollah and Hamas despise each other?

You are making less and less sense. and piss poor ad hominem

 

[Citizen66]

He makes perfect sense.

 

[Pickman's model]

He makes perfect sense.

yes. but that's because you are not afflicted with cliff's syndrome, an inability to comprehend criticism resulting in verbal diarrhoea

 

[Citizen66]

yes. but that's because you are not afflicted with cliff's syndrome, an inability to comprehend criticism resulting in verbal diarrhoea

I'm just reminded that earlier today he said exactly the same thing to me.

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm just reminded that earlier today he said exactly the same thing to me.

cliff's syndrome can lead to mild memory loss