EDL watch

[protesticals]

Limerick Red. I agree with you but note that fascism has also generally had substantial support from the commercial lower middle classes;the shop keepers and small business owners but saying the sort of comments made would only turn them off too. Belboid's comments were rather enlightening. He sees trying to appeal to Muslims as being what is important NOT what will appeal to the EDL's potential recruits.

Multicultural carnivals just annoy these people. When I'm working (which being an actor tends to be not very often) I listen in on the conversations of the tradesmen- the riggers, grips, sparks's, gaffers etc and there is a huge amount of " I wouldn't join them myself ...but" comments.

 

[andysays]

This is a very important point, if the UAF (and not just them) was really interested in smashing the EDL, they would take due care and dilligence to look at each move they make, through the eyes of someone potentially on the periphery of the EDL and ask themselves does 1) sneering at the clothes 2) sneering at their weight/tattoos/general appeareance 3) sneering at their level of education, drive this potential person further towards or further away from the EDL.
The left still refuses to learn from AFAs experience, that Fascism (or extreme nationalism in the case of the EDL) comes almost exclusively from the white working class, and no ammount of Muslim community leaders, MPs , Multicultural carnivals, Victory parades will ever, ever change this.
Until they are willing to address the people who attend or potentially attend EDL rallies they are going nowhere.
This is not to say satire, humorus critisim doesnt have a place,but lets not mistake this for activism (EDL News), or that physical confrontation doesnt have an important role to play (as in brighton) but since the resurgence since Woolwich, we all have to look at what we are doing as part of the anti fascist movement, and ask what are we doing wrong. Because you just need to look around the country and see we have got something very wrong.
The EDL got it wrong too, they burnt out their membership through endless demo's, infighting, dodgy accounting, the were down to the bare bones, and some people were happy to clap themselves on the back, thinking they "smashed the nazis", did they Fuck, without addressing a single reason why someone would go on an EDL march, and now the EDL have being giving a second crack of the whip.

It's almost as if they're actually not interested in really smashing the EDL, but rather using them as a recruiting tool to swell their own ranks.

You have to be pretty cynical to think this, of course, but even more cynical to actually do it...

 

[Limerick Red]

Limerick Red. I agree with you but note that fascism has also generally had substantial support from the commercial lower middle classes;the shop keepers and small business owners but saying the sort of comments made would only turn them off too.

Yes, this is true, to clarify, I meant the people on the streets, at the demos etc, this is almost exclusively WC.

 

[Streathamite]

lucky auld swp

Mee-ow!

 

[protesticals]

best comment is at 7:29 minutes in.

 

[Streathamite]

since the resurgence since Woolwich, we all have to look at what we are doing as part of the anti fascist movement, and ask what are we doing wrong. Because you just need to look around the country and see we have got something very wrong.
The EDL got it wrong too, they burnt out their membership through endless demo's, infighting, dodgy accounting, the were down to the bare bones, and some people were happy to clap themselves on the back, thinking they "smashed the nazis", did they Fuck, without addressing a single reason why someone would go on an EDL march, and now the EDL have being giving a second crack of the whip.

Actually, this rings horribly true. I couldn't give a monkey's about trying to influence the hardcore fash, or even clowns like yaxley-lennon-robinson-mortgagefraud with the voice of sweet reason, but one area we've totally failed - not just the EDL, ALL of us, is in trying to understand, and relate to, and thereby influencing those whose fears the EDL play on, and those who could be drawn into those spheres of influence.

 

[J Ed]

Multicultural carnivals just annoy these people.

Maybe I'm just a cynical misanthrope but I find the idea that all people need to stop being racist is samba bands and free henna tattoos really fucking irritating and patronising.

 

[protesticals]

Maybe I'm just a cynical misanthrope but I find the idea that all people need to stop being racist is samba bands and free henna tattoos really fucking irritating and patronising.

Is there any way of liking this twice?

 

[protesticals]

Yes, this is true, to clarify, I meant the people on the streets, at the demos etc, this is almost exclusively WC.

Absolutely right.

 

[belboid]

Alright old stoic. Long time no see.

aah - hardly surprising he doesn't think the EDL are much of a problem then, from his pleasant abode in sunny thailand

Since I haven't actually defined islamism you comment was rather odd however..

I dont need to know what your definition is to know that you have one. I dont know what colour your hair is/was, but I know it existed.

Belboid's comments were rather enlightening. He sees trying to appeal to Muslims as being what is important NOT what will appeal to the EDL's potential recruits.

in trying to get people to an anti-EDL demo, then only a brain dead moron would think targetting potential EDL recruits would be a good idea.

Sympathiser: 'I think there are too many nutty muslims, and the EDL are okay'
Old Stoic: 'well, jolly good, why dont you come along to our demo to oppose them then.'

Doesnt really make any sense, does it? Whereas getting the people who are the explicit target of the EDL long does.

Try thinking before you post.

 

[cesare]

Wouldn't you just ask some questions about why they think Muslims are nutty and too many of them, though?

 

[belboid]

That's not my experience at all. Like SN I've heard multiple people from different political backgrounds accuse the left of being soft on Islamism. I do think it's an issue.

'the left' - maybe. But we weren't talking about the generic 'left' before, we were talking UAF specifically. And that is an important difference. When most people talk about 'the left' they arent actually thinking about UAF, or the SWP or any of the tiny left groups, they're talking about Livingstone, Labour lefties, even bloody Miliband. Quite different thing.

For me asking what people should do if someone with a Islamist flag turns up at a demo is starting from the wrong end. The starting point is clearly recognising that Islamism is an anti-wc philosophy and thus that any progressive group should make it clear at the start that they will have nothing to do with it. UAFs willingness to work with these people has meant that that ship has sailed and shows their uselessness.

Yes that's a fine starting point - although, technically, it is one UAF hold to too. They wont officially work with 'jihadists,' and speaker after speaker will condemn jihadism. It makes fuck all difference, because of the more widespread general perception about 'the left.'

 

[belboid]

Wouldn't you just ask some questions about why they think Muslims are nutty and too many of them, though?

well, that would be a good idea in the longer run. But wouldnt do much good at building a demo

 

[cesare]

well, that would be a good idea in the longer run. But wouldnt do much good at building a demo

It depends on the type of demo, and how far in advance you're building it for. Granted, a quick response to EDL/BNP mobilisation isn't going to allow much time for that. But it should be ongoing.

 

[frogwoman]

Oh and this isn't just an EDL thing but some work in the local community when there's no demos going on as well as "building for a demo" whatever it's about, edl, bedroom tax, whatever, would be a good thing. Not saying you dont do this Belboid and Ive been just as guilty of it in the past, there are loads of things i'd like to have carried on but had no time, but the whole idea of "building for a demo" and then not doing anything outside that is a bit annoying. Not saying anyone on this thread does that or anything though.

With people working really long hours etc tho, I'm not sure how this can be resolved.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yes that's a fine starting point - although, technically, it is one UAF hold to too. They wont officially work with 'jihadists,' and speaker after speaker will condemn jihadism. It makes fuck all difference, because of the more widespread general perception about 'the left.'

your post strongly suggests that unofficially the uaf will certainly work with jihadis.

 

[belboid]

It depends on the type of demo, and how far in advance you're building it for. Granted, a quick response to EDL/BNP mobilisation isn't going to allow much time for that. But it should be ongoing.

Sure, but that is a different thing. No one is saying you shouldnt organise amongst the wwc, any anti-edl appraoch needs to be two-pronged, undercutting their support by working within the wwc, and organising upfront opposition to them by organising everywhere - particularly including those targetted by the edl.

 

[belboid]

Oh and this isn't just an EDL thing but some work in the local community when there's no demos going on as well as "building for a demo" whatever it's about, edl, bedroom tax, whatever, would be a good thing. Not saying you dont do this Belboid and Ive been just as guilty of it in the past, there are loads of things i'd like to have carried on but had no time, but the whole idea of "building for a demo" and then not doing anything outside that is a bit annoying. Not saying anyone on this thread does that or anything though.

With people working really long hours etc tho, I'm not sure how this can be resolved.

building for a demo can be the beginning of that, it can be a foot in the door, as it were. Much better if you are already well rooted in such a community of course, but we cant be everywhere already, so have to start from somewhere.

 

[frogwoman]

building for a demo can be the beginning of that, it can be a foot in the door, as it were. Much better if you are already well rooted in such a community of course, but we cant be everywhere already, so have to start from somewhere.

yeah i agree, i wasn't having a go. ive been part of that sort of thing myself, i would have really liked to have carried the bus campaign on in my village but not enough people wanted to do it and I didn't have time

 

[belboid]

your post strongly suggests that unofficially the uaf will certainly work with jihadis.

well, we all saw the bomber on a platform once. I'd suspect that was just an almighty fuckup when they asked 'does anyone else want to speak' - tho who knows? They'll also fuck up by not knowing enough about small local groups (see the group sihhi posted up links to in the east end, for example).

 

[protesticals]

a
in trying to get people to an anti-EDL demo, then only a brain dead moron would think targetting potential EDL recruits would be a good idea.

Isn't the point to stop the EDL recruiting in the first place? Or do you actually want the EDL to continue so you can have a drama, and sell newspapers and recruit?

 

[belboid]

Isn't the point to stop the EDL recruiting in the first place? Or do you actually want the EDL to continue so you can have a drama, and sell newspapers and recruit?

Have you bothered reading the rest of the thread, we've been through this.

bit late to stop them recruiting a week before a demo, isnt it?

 

[protesticals]

Have you bothered reading the rest of the thread, we've been through this.

bit late to stop them recruiting a week before a demo, isnt it?

You are spouting such incomprehensible stuff that I haven't a clue what you are referring to or to whom. You should be stopping them recruiting all year long not pandering to Islamists and making MORE converts to the EDL cause.

 

[belboid]

You are spouting such incomprehensible stuff that I haven't a clue what you are referring to or to whom. You should be stopping them recruiting all year long not pandering to Islamists and making MORE converts to the EDL cause.

well, no one else had any problem understanding what I wrote. So i guess you've come up with that guff to cover for the fact that you are talking out of your arse

 

[protesticals]

well, no one else had any problem understanding what I wrote. So i guess you've come up with that guff to cover for the fact that you are talking out of your arse

Wow we are a little upset this morning aren't we. Perhaps you would like to explain to me, obviously analoglossic as I am, who or what "sympathiser"and "old stoic" are meant to represent?

 

[belboid]

Wow we are a little upset this morning aren't we. Perhaps you would like to explain to me, obviously analoglossic as I am, who or what "sympathiser"and "old stoic" are meant to represent?

hardly, I'm laughing at you and your incomprehensible guff. Such as the above. Sympathiser is, uhh, someone who sympathises with the EDL (the clue is in the words used) and Old Stoic is you.

As to 'analoglossic' - fuck only knows

 

[protesticals]

Old Stoic is me? I am neither old nor a stoic.

As to 'analoglossic' - fuck only knows

Pretty self explanatory to such an obviously intelligent person as you.

 

[treelover]

Engagement with WC, etc, does this mean that small EDL groups should always be chased off/asked to leave bedroom tax protests, etc or dialogue, etc?

 

[belboid]

and in other news - FoxNews host endorses the EDL on air -
http://mediamatters.org/mobile/blog...ur-back-fox-host-kilmeade-endorses-tom/194421

 

[protesticals]

Engagement with WC, etc, does this mean that small EDL groups should always be chased off/asked to leave bedroom tax protests, etc or dialogue, etc?

I would certainly not share a protest with them.