EDL watch

[belboid]

He makes perfect sense.

he's a daft sod who doesn't read things properly, and responds to a different point to the one being made. So, according to that post, anyone who doesn't agree with his own personal definition of 'Islamist' can fuck off; likewise on his 'All edl look like TR?' comes several comments after the original, which said absolutely nothing about 'all edl looking like TR' - a classic goalpost shifting move.

 

[belboid]

I'm just reminded that earlier today he said exactly the same thing to me.

did i? Well, you probably were

 

[Streathamite]

This is what the Feb 28th movement (as supported by the SWP) believe in

1. Reinstatement of ‘Absolute trust and faith in Allah’ in the constitution of Bangladesh and abolishment of all laws which are in conflict with the values of the Quran and Sunnah​

2. Enactment of (anti-defamation) law at the parliament keeping death penalty as the highest form of punishment to prevent defamation of Allah, Muhammad (S.A.W) and Islam, and prevent spreading hate against Muslims (highest penalty prevalent for defamation is 10 years).​

3. Immediate end to the negative propaganda by all atheist bloggers in a leading role in the so called Shahbag movement who have defamed Allah, Mohammad (S.A.W), and Islam and their exemplary punishment.​

4. End to all alien cultural practices like immodesty, lewdness, misconduct, culture of free mixing of the sexes, candle lighting in the name of personal freedom and free speech.​

5. Abolishment of the anti-Islamic inheritance law and the ungodly education policy. Making Islamic education compulsory in all levels from primary to higher secondary.​

6. Declaration of Ahmadis as non-Muslims by the government and put a stop to their negative and conspirational activities.​

Frankly the SWP should be no platformed.​

I think I've just been looking at the same website you got that from!
Ta for that, yep, generally knew as much as that, but what I wondered was whether they expressed their Faith by planting bombs, beheading people etc...

 

[Streathamite]

Which groups in the UK use a black flag with white arabic lettering who are actually peace groups?

none to the best of my knowledge, but any 'muslims for peace' group could. The white on black combo/schtick is simply not important, symbolically or otherwise. It signifies nothing that important in Islamic culture, beyond the fact that the abbasids' banners were also black. Some groupings just chose it, fuck knows why.

 

[Streathamite]

If there's anyone there with something written in Arabic some fucker will claim its jihadist, just opposing the EDL is enough for them.

True, which is again where you put faith in the intelligence of potential allies.

 

[Streathamite]

Btw which side does '' Party Notes"order you to support now that Hezbollah and Hamas despise each other?

being fair, Belboid's not a swappie

 

[dominion]

Just as bizarre is this:

http://howiescorner.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/a-wtf-moment-bnp-leader-visits-lebanon.html

 

[Pickman's model]

being fair, Belboid's not a swappie

lucky auld swp

 

[J Ed]

Just as bizarre is this:

http://howiescorner.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/a-wtf-moment-bnp-leader-visits-lebanon.html

Must take him back to his pro-Gaddafi days

 

[IC3D]

Just as bizarre is this:

http://howiescorner.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/a-wtf-moment-bnp-leader-visits-lebanon.html

Fascist has a hard on for Authoritarian regimes, dictators and their proxy militias, not a massive stretch.

 

[The39thStep]

This is what the Feb 28th movement (as supported by the SWP) believe in

1. Reinstatement of ‘Absolute trust and faith in Allah’ in the constitution of Bangladesh and abolishment of all laws which are in conflict with the values of the Quran and Sunnah​

2. Enactment of (anti-defamation) law at the parliament keeping death penalty as the highest form of punishment to prevent defamation of Allah, Muhammad (S.A.W) and Islam, and prevent spreading hate against Muslims (highest penalty prevalent for defamation is 10 years).​

3. Immediate end to the negative propaganda by all atheist bloggers in a leading role in the so called Shahbag movement who have defamed Allah, Mohammad (S.A.W), and Islam and their exemplary punishment.​

4. End to all alien cultural practices like immodesty, lewdness, misconduct, culture of free mixing of the sexes, candle lighting in the name of personal freedom and free speech.​

5. Abolishment of the anti-Islamic inheritance law and the ungodly education policy. Making Islamic education compulsory in all levels from primary to higher secondary.​

6. Declaration of Ahmadis as non-Muslims by the government and put a stop to their negative and conspirational activities.​

Frankly the SWP should be no platformed.​

Who should be no platforming the SWP and how?

 

[Streathamite]

Just as bizarre is this:

http://howiescorner.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/a-wtf-moment-bnp-leader-visits-lebanon.html

That is just mental

 

[protesticals]

being fair, Belboid's not a swappie

Oh OK. Shows me up for making assumptions.

 

[protesticals]

Fascist has a hard on for Authoritarian regimes, dictators and their proxy militias, not a massive stretch.

 

[protesticals]

perhaps they can exchange notes.

 

[protesticals]

Who should be no platforming the SWP and how?

The Dagenham girl pipers.

 

[protesticals]

Classic goalpost shifting......I never realised I was so machiavellian. Wow.

Since I haven't actually defined islamism you comment was rather odd however..

If you think gay people should be Stoned/hanged/ beaten up/ Imprisoned. You can fuck right off.

If you think it is OK to beat your wife then you can fuck right off.

If you think that you are entitled to kidnap your daughter and take her to another country and force her into marriage then you can fuck right off.

If you think apostacy should attract any legal sanction whatsoever then you can fuck right off.

I have no idea at all how many people have these ideas and wouldn't like to even guess. But anyone who states this or gives platform to these people are worthy of the same contempt I have fro the BNP/EDL/C18 etc etc.

 

[IC3D]

protesticals

 

[butchersapron]

Classic goalpost shifting......I never realised I was so machiavellian. Wow.

Since I haven't actually defined islamism you comment was rather odd however..

If you think gay people should be Stoned/hanged/ beaten up/ Imprisoned. You can fuck right off.

If you think it is OK to beat your wife then you can fuck right off.

If you think that you are entitled to kidnap your daughter and take her to another country and force her into marriage then you can fuck right off.

If you think apostacy should attract any legal sanction whatsoever then you can fuck right off.

I have no idea at all how many people have these ideas and wouldn't like to even guess. But anyone who states this or gives platform to these people are worthy of the same contempt I have fro the BNP/EDL/C18 etc etc.

Alright old stoic. Long time no see.

 

[J Ed]

So the comments at the end of this article aren't atypical of articles relating to the EDL in local newspapers. Do the EDL have social media campaigns to flood websites with these comments or are they more typical of popular sentiment than I realised?

 

[Anudder Oik]

I wonder what effect such signs would have upon muslims who didnt buy into the whole use of language around 'islamist,' 'jihadi,' etc. People who were defensive of their religion, and didn't particularly know the organisers of the demo. They are amongst the very people we are trying to pull to such events, but putting signs like that up will surely put them off, no?

Especailly when you get the pedantic muslim who goes 'well, technically I am a jihadist, because I know what the word means and it isn't all about the violent struggle against non-believers at all.'

The UAF may be bending over backwards to pull all sorts of people to their events (minority groups, posh students, M.P.'s, Harry Potter fans, Tarquin singing "if it wasn't for the coppers" and someone on a uni-cycle) but amongst the people they are not interested in is the white working class who are being left for the EDL to pick up and not without a little help with free propaganda courtesy of the UAF.

 

[Anudder Oik]

Talking about propaganda and in keeping with the BBC's guidelines on balance, here's an anti-EDL interlude:

"Eee!, I think i'll pop down ta local war memorial ta pay ma respects like. Hope ma grandaddy don't see me cos hed turn in his fuckin grave he would".

 

[redsquirrel]

Its not just about this demo, but I really doubt that there is a widely held impression that the UAF is soft on Islamists. Outside of the far-right, who'll say that whatever, and those of us with too much time on our hands on the left, I haven't heard it come up, never from an 'ordinary person.' Which is why I think this whole discussion is completely overblown. Someone holds up a (still not entirely confirmed as) jihadi flag, therefore we need to change how we organise demos? I dont think so.

That's not my experience at all. Like SN I've heard multiple people from different political backgrounds accuse the left of being soft on Islamism. I do think it's an issue.

For me asking what people should do if someone with a Islamist flag turns up at a demo is starting from the wrong end. The starting point is clearly recognising that Islamism is an anti-wc philosophy and thus that any progressive group should make it clear at the start that they will have nothing to do with it. UAFs willingness to work with these people has meant that that ship has sailed and shows their uselessness.

 

[Anudder Oik]

This song has got it spot on.

 

[treelover]

The UAF may be bending over backwards to pull all sorts of people to their events (minority groups, posh students, M.P.'s, Harry Potter fans, Tarquin singing "if it wasn't for the coppers" and someone on a uni-cycle) but amongst the people they are not interested in is the white working class who are being left for the EDL to pick up and not without a little help with free propaganda courtesy of the UAF.[/quote]


first time heard the 'white working class' in this context for a while, seemed to have become decidedly non u, time for a return

 

[FNG]

one thing i did notice was how quickly local support fell away from the EDL when Tommy offered up his organisation as strike breakers during the Public Workers Strike. The murder of Drummer Lee Rigby has given them a shot in the arm but longterm i doubt that they will be able to hide their anti wc policies for long.

It does of course lead back to a much needed discussion on filling the void.

 

[protesticals]

So the comments at the end of this article aren't atypical of articles relating to the EDL in local newspapers. Do the EDL have social media campaigns to flood websites with these comments or are they more typical of popular sentiment than I realised?

Unfortunately I suspect the latter.

 

[protesticals]

The EDL was formed on the back of an impression that there was a double standard towards Muslims after a demonstration by a far-right Islamic group in Luton. Aggravated with what has been seen as a cover up in the various grooming scandals, absurd levels of media coverage and government influence given to completely unelected 'representatives' of the 'Muslim community'(whatever that is) self publicists who often turn out to be shysters or bigots.

Many people believe that Mosques are paid for by local authorities for instance. It isn't the case but when the EDL/BNP etc say so many people beleive them because as far as they are concerned they are lied to by the government in its divers forms .
it's hardly fertile ground for community harmony.

UAF/SWP solution: Bus in middle class students to provincial towns to shout "whose streets our streets' and confront another bunch of bussed in Football hoolgans and piss off locals who aren't interested.


Edited for errors.

 

[Ranbay]

So the comments at the end of this article aren't atypical of articles relating to the EDL in local newspapers. Do the EDL have social media campaigns to flood websites with these comments or are they more typical of popular sentiment than I realised?

They have people who post on all news storys to try and put them in good light.

Bit like Arthur who posted here for a while.

 

[Limerick Red]

The UAF may be bending over backwards to pull all sorts of people to their events (minority groups, posh students, M.P.'s, Harry Potter fans, Tarquin singing "if it wasn't for the coppers" and someone on a uni-cycle) but amongst the people they are not interested in is the white working class who are being left for the EDL to pick up and not without a little help with free propaganda courtesy of the UAF.

This is a very important point, if the UAF (and not just them) was really interested in smashing the EDL, they would take due care and dilligence to look at each move they make, through the eyes of someone potentially on the periphery of the EDL and ask themselves does 1) sneering at the clothes 2) sneering at their weight/tattoos/general appeareance 3) sneering at their level of education, drive this potential person further towards or further away from the EDL.
The left still refuses to learn from AFAs experience, that Fascism (or extreme nationalism in the case of the EDL) comes almost exclusively from the white working class, and no ammount of Muslim community leaders, MPs , Multicultural carnivals, Victory parades will ever, ever change this.
Until they are willing to address the people who attend or potentially attend EDL rallies they are going nowhere.
This is not to say satire, humorus critisim doesnt have a place,but lets not mistake this for activism (EDL News), or that physical confrontation doesnt have an important role to play (as in brighton) but since the resurgence since Woolwich, we all have to look at what we are doing as part of the anti fascist movement, and ask what are we doing wrong. Because you just need to look around the country and see we have got something very wrong.
The EDL got it wrong too, they burnt out their membership through endless demo's, infighting, dodgy accounting, the were down to the bare bones, and some people were happy to clap themselves on the back, thinking they "smashed the nazis", did they Fuck, without addressing a single reason why someone would go on an EDL march, and now the EDL have being giving a second crack of the whip.