J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
The amount of uncritical and even positive press coverage the EDL has gotten both here and abroad over the past few weeks is terrifying. It's like it's been decided that the group is now legitimate.
EDL watch
- Thread starter Das Uberdog
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The amount of uncritical and even positive press coverage the EDL has gotten both here and abroad over the past few weeks is terrifying. It's like it's been decided that the group is now legitimate.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
and listerine
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
Sorry to bump back, but this really doesn't make sense. Is there any way in which the jihadists could possibly be a progressive force, or part of progressive forces, in the situation of class struggle?
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
and they'd ignore you. what then? <which has been my question the whole time>
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
depends what you mean by 'work with.' I'll attend some demo's they call, and wont do others. Depends on the circumstances.But you're still happy to work with them.
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
Question Time appearance in how many weeks? It's the sort of thing the beeb would love to do, making waves regardless of the consequences, defending it on the grounds of 'creating debate' (always an arsehole's excuse).
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
No of course not, but that is a different question. People who want to bring back feudalism also cant play any progressive role, but no one thinks about campaigning against them because they are irrelevant and have zero chance of implementing anything. Or conspiraloons. Icke and the jazzites are dangerous loonies whose arguments should be opposed, but they dont need a mass workers campaign against them, because they have no chance of ever implementing their lunacy.
Limerick Red
Мы вас похороним!
this is straight forward, if you had the people you would physically fuck em off, if you dont you cant!
editor
hiraethified
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
That, i believe, is the banned twat gunneradt.
editor
hiraethified
LOL! So he's still trying to feel a part of the boards by posting up inane drivel on his little Twitter account?
*bless.
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
Can you not see how antifascists tolerating Salafists and allowing them to carry their symbols on antifascist mobilizations helps tip the balance of class forces in favour of the enemy by alienating working class people - many of them Muslims?
Never mind moralism, it doesn't make any pragmatic sense either.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
how many comrades do you have? Can you effectively implement such a policy? as LR says
as I said in 13220, tactically, i think it's best if that is done by other muslim (background) comrades, so as to avoid any perceptions of white folk not letting muslims express their views. But in this particular circumstance, I don't believe there is anything anyone could reasonably have done.
There is another, wider point, about how the UAF and SWP dont really bother with any serious stewarding, expecting everyone to just merrily stroll down the road and stand around in their preordained places, but thats another thing.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
its not like they have the Daily Mail and UKIP on their side, is it? Their racism will always have more chance of being implemented than jihadism.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
I think its effect upon this demo is completely overblown, and, as I've said, I dont know what else could practically have been done in the circumstances. Pretty much everyones response has been 'well, you wouldn't have started from there.' But we did, so...
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
OK, but surely there are three important differences between them and the jihadists.
1) The jihadists are the extremist, militant end of a Faith that is 1400 years old and has a billion adherents worldwide, rather than a handful of tinfoilhatters on the interweb
2) as such, they have been far more strident and successful in both attracting support, and carrying out operations
3) Whilst w/c people in muslim communities can be, and are, a necessary part of class struggle, Islam can only ever be the ideological enemy of that strugglke, like all faiths;
In short, it, and it's militant wing is a far bigger threat to that struggle
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
very little chance, but why take chances? Their brand of poison should be opposed, wherever it wells up.
Limerick Red
Мы вас похороним!
Sure, thats fine, but not always possible, and what we are talking about here is optics, so whats looks worse, (predominately) white folk confronting Jihadists, and telling them they are not welcome, or accepting them as part of the protest, and allowing the media and the EDL, to discredit the protests/demos. I know what I think looks worse.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
Precisely; and the SWP have a vile history of cosying up to both Islamists and jihadists
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
But what if the Jihadists then refuse to leave the demo? Then what?
sunnysidedown
caput mortuum
Limerick Red
Мы вас похороним!
Like I said, these will be a small minority on a demo, so they could easily be physically put off a demo.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
And in many middle eastern countries the jihadists essentially play the same role as the fash - look at the Muslim brotherhood for example in Egypt
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
It's not just about this demo though is it? This isn't the first time events have occurred that give the impression that the UAF, and by association the left/antifascists in general, are soft on islamists. This is a part of that - probably not of huge significance if taken in isolation, but taken in the context of other stuff like this that's happened before it is important.
To be honest I'm not really clear as to what you're saying here. There is a widely held impression, among more than just EDL and sympathisers, that UAF and by association all antifascists are soft on Islamists. Them being allowed to carry their flags and stuff at demos only reinforces that. I doubt this one instance, taken alone, is of huge significance - but it's more evidence for those who hold this view.
The wider impression of antifascists as soft on Islamists definitely is damaging - there's simply no question in my mind about that. This feeds into it and the lack of any kind of response from UAF, and in some cases outright denials and incoherent arguments about it not really being an islamist flag just adds to it. It's not just about this one instance, it's about a more long term and more damaging trend.
Do you agree?
If so the discussion should be about how we go about changing that impression. And a part of doing that is to work out how we deal with it when (and it is when - it will happen again) they do this kind of stuff again. It probably won't always be possible to physically repel them. But we need to have an honest discussion about the damage this causes and how it can be countered. It would probably be a good start for the organisers of the demos where it happens to come out afterwards and say it's not tolerable and that we're opposed to that kind of far right politics too.
Dismissing these concerns as moralism misses the point if you ask me.
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