EDL watch

[Pickman's model]

You

I've never seen UAF taking down anarcho flags etc, nor seen them saying or implying even that anarchos aren't welcome.

You dont think 'jihadists' should be on anti-fascist demos - how are you going to stop them?

i have seen weyman bennett call an anarchist woman a racist for disagreeing with him in the church hall on bethnal green road.

 

[belboid]

Well your stance against fascists is moralistic too, no?

No, it isnt based upon 'ooh, this group is a bit nasty, I dont like them - which is abstract moralism. It is based upon an analysis of class forces, of what influence various trains of thought are likely to have, about the very possibilities of them being implemented. Which means, in the UK, that there is absolutely no equivalence between fascism and jihadism.

 

[belboid]

i have seen weyman bennett call an anarchist woman a racist for disagreeing with him in the church hall on bethnal green road.

so what? Thats not banning her from attendance, is it?

 

[Pickman's model]

No, it isnt based upon 'ooh, this group is a bit nasty, I dont like them - which is abstract moralism. It is based upon an analysis of class forces, of what influence various trains of thought are likely to have, about the very possibilities of them being implemented. Which means, in the UK, that there is absolutely no equivalence between fascism and jihadism.

it's back to the drawing board for you then. when you post up stuff about your thought processes it is surprisingly unimpressive.

 

[Citizen66]

You

I've never seen UAF taking down anarcho flags etc, nor seen them saying or implying even that anarchos aren't welcome.

You dont think 'jihadists' should be on anti-fascist demos - how are you going to stop them?

So you can make it clear you oppose the edl but not islam4uk? why don't Islam4UK join an edl demo?

 

[Citizen66]

No, it isnt based upon 'ooh, this group is a bit nasty, I dont like them - which is abstract moralism. It is based upon an analysis of class forces, of what influence various trains of thought are likely to have, about the very possibilities of them being implemented. Which means, in the UK, that there is absolutely no equivalence between fascism and jihadism.

You think Islamists are paragons of class struggle?

 

[Pickman's model]

so what? Thats not banning her from attendance, is it?

so weyman bennett calling someone a racist without the slightest justification - he wanted the seats at the meeting laid out in a lecture style, she - like i - wanted a big circle - is in your view absolutely ok and above board. what a fucking little muppet you are.

 

[belboid]

That would appear to be an acknowledgement that you don't want them removed.

In which case, any guff about

Oh, we didn't know who they were​

or

There was no effective way of removing them without disrupting and splitting the demo​

is just hot air...

Which is it?

neither

 

[Pickman's model]

so what? Thats not banning her from attendance, is it?

it does imply that he didn't really welcome her doesn't it

 

[belboid]

So you can make it clear you oppose the edl but not islam4uk? why don't Islam4UK join an edl demo?

You think Islamists are paragons of class struggle?

you're not making any sense.

 

[belboid]

so weyman bennett calling someone a racist without the slightest justification - he wanted the seats at the meeting laid out in a lecture style, she - like i - wanted a big circle - is in your view absolutely ok and above board. what a fucking little muppet you are.

none of which has any connection whatsoever with what we were discussing. We all know you dont like Weyman Bennett already, this adds nothing.

 

[Citizen66]

No, it isnt based upon 'ooh, this group is a bit nasty, I dont like them - which is abstract moralism. It is based upon an analysis of class forces, of what influence various trains of thought are likely to have, about the very possibilities of them being implemented. Which means, in the UK, that there is absolutely no equivalence between fascism and jihadism.

Perhaps not in leafy middle class land. But if you don't think they have an affect in Muslim working class communities you're a fucking idiot.

 

[belboid]

it does imply that he didn't really welcome her doesn't it

so what. Not liking someone/something isnt the same as stopping them. Once again, you fall immediately into moralism.

 

[belboid]

Perhaps not in leafy middle class land. But if you don't think they have an affect in Muslim working class communities you're a fucking idiot.

well in you stride then, brave whitey moralist, you go and save muslim communities.

 

[andysays]

I've never seen UAF taking down anarcho flags etc, nor seen them saying or implying even that anarchos aren't welcome

So you haven't read earlier in this thread (or possibly a different one) where someone (Citizen66 ?) recalled how UAF organisers had threatened to have anti-fash anarchists arrested if they showed up?

(Someone with a better memory for detail better help me out here )

You dont think 'jihadists' should be on anti-fascist demos - how are you going to stop them?

Whereas you apparently do - if not say so explicitly and unequivocally.

 

[Pickman's model]

none of which has any connection whatsoever with what we were discussing. We all know you dont like Weyman Bennett already, this adds nothing.

we all know you have no political analysis on the subject worth discussing, as you continue to demonstrate almost minute by minute.

 

[Citizen66]

well in you stride then, brave whitey moralist, you go and save muslim communities.

Well you obviously don't give a shit about them or you wouldn't stand shoulder to shoulder with Islamists.

 

[Pickman's model]

so what. Not liking someone/something isnt the same as stopping them. Once again, you fall immediately into moralism.

you don't read your own fucking posts. do you do this deliberately or is your apparent quest for muppetry unconscious?

see your post 13106 where you say you are unaware of uaf making anarchists feel unwelcome

 

[Citizen66]

So you haven't read earlier in this thread (or possibly a different one) where someone (Citizen66 ?) recalled how UAF organisers had threatened to have anti-fash anarchists arrested if they showed up?

(Someone with a better memory for detail better help me out here )

Whereas you apparently do - if not say so explicitly and unequivocally.

It was the recent Newcastle Unites demo. And they carried out their threat (although strongly deny it).

 

[malatesta32]

Don't the UAF just decide whatever demo is their demo and try and organise it accordingly?

in all the demos ive been on UAF comply with plod etc whilst 'independent militants' stay out of kettles cordons etc and move around.

 

[Pickman's model]

Well you obviously don't give a shit about them or you wouldn't stand shoulder to shoulder with Islamists.

he'll stand close to anyone whose mates have bombs. perhaps we've got him wrong and it's just a heightened sense of self-preservation which leads belboid to cosy up to the jihadis.

 

[Citizen66]

andysays

http://www.revolutionarycommunist.org/index.php/editorial-and-welcome/3034-nu070613

 

[belboid]

So you haven't read earlier in this thread (or possibly a different one) where someone (Citizen66 ?) recalled how UAF organisers had threatened to have anti-fash anarchists arrested if they showed up?

(Someone with a better memory for detail better help me out here )

I said I haven't seen it, and I haven't. What else can I say? We got one claim earlier in the thread that it has happened, it clearly isnt commonplace or we'd have had lots more claims. We havent.

Whereas you apparently do - if not say so explicitly and unequivocally.

I don't think they can effectively be stopped. You haven't come up with any way of doing so. I'd much rather they werent there, but I don't think we can stop them any more than we can stop the wet moralist christian liberals (who are probably a bigger threat to the british working class than thew jihadists) with their flags.

 

[malatesta32]

if UAF find themselves with jihadis amongst their number it could well be by accident as folk often turn up and stand with biggest crowd. it is up to them to remove them. however, if jihadis stood amongst militants (ie, anarchos, etc) outside of UAF group i doubt they would be asked to stick around long.

 

[belboid]

Well you obviously don't give a shit about them or you wouldn't stand shoulder to shoulder with Islamists.

I dont. And, as you've started down the making things up line, you are clearly out of argument

 

[Pickman's model]

I said I haven't seen it, and I haven't. What else can I say? We got one claim earlier in the thread that it has happened, it clearly isnt commonplace or we'd have had lots more claims. We havent.


I don't think they can effectively be stopped. You haven't come up with any way of doing so. I'd much rather they werent there, but I don't think we can stop them any more than we can stop the wet moralist christian liberals (who are probably a bigger threat to the british working class than thew jihadists) with their flags.

you can't stop them perhaps, but i have yet to see a jihadi turn out to an anarchist anti-fascist event. it's because your lot have a fucking decade of snuggling up to all manner of anti-working class jihadis that they hang about with your mob on demos. we don't - so they don't.

 

[andysays]

It was the recent Newcastle Unites demo. And they carried out their threat (although strongly deny it).

Can't imagine why that would make anyone feel unwelcome

 

[belboid]

you don't read your own fucking posts. do you do this deliberately or is your apparent quest for muppetry unconscious?

see your post 13106 where you say you are unaware of uaf making anarchists feel unwelcome

aah, so sorry. WB having an argument with someone clearly affects the entire anarchist scene. Sorry you are so sensitive. It doesnt really look like you were stopped from attending tho.

 

[belboid]

he'll stand close to anyone whose mates have bombs. perhaps we've got him wrong and it's just a heightened sense of self-preservation which leads belboid to cosy up to the jihadis.

ohh the hypocrisy of the little boy with his irish daydreams

 

[Pickman's model]

I dont. And, as you've started down the making things up line, you are clearly out of argument

it'd be nice to see you produce something resembling an argument.