EDL watch

[Streathamite]

Not biting.

Look at it this way: why should someone listen to you if you're not prepared to listen to them?

Aarghh! x1000000
I don't care if the EDL and the wankers who follow them (or fellow-travel) 'listen' to me, and I am certainly NEVER going to 'listen' to them, and the hateful bile they spew. They're The Enemy. Pure n simple.
All I want is that they are stopped.

 

[Quartz]

oh ffs! Yes, and 'They', then AND now, are the fash!

And 'They' were the Communists in the Soviet Union.
And 'They' were the Communists in China.
And 'They' were the Peronists in Argentina.
And 'They' were the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia.
And 'They' were ZANU in Zimbabwe.
Etc.

 

[Tom A]

“Only one thing could have broken our movement – if our enemies had understood its principle and from the first day had smashed the nucleus of our movement with extreme brutality.”
(Adolf Hitler, 1933)

“If the enemy had known how weak we were, it would probably have reduced us to jelly. It would have crushed in blood the very beginning of our work.”
(J Goebbels, 1934)

 

[barney_pig]

Those who fail to shout down fascists
Will later be forced to shoot them down

 

[ddraig]

<snip>

You're excluding them for not being inclusive, but that then means that you're not being inclusive and should therefore be excluded yourself.

what am i excluding them from? do you think people who actively seek to oppress those that have a different skin colour and 'religion' to them are inclusive?
and what should i be excluded from for not including those that seek to oppress?
if they didn't actively seek to oppress and included all then there wouldn't be an issue
do you see yet?

tried to have this 'debate' with a nazi after he muttered something about ideology on saturday before a copper told me to shut up and stop being silly

 

[Nice one]

Nice one
the place ive been talking about and i was a regular at throughout my teens organises trips to israel for teenagers, there are israeli flags on a billboard by the door etc. when the latest israeli attack happened in december they sent an email to all members telling them of what the israeli ambassor had said (although the rabbi then put an opposing view in his email and then sent another one out judging by some of the replies that he was probably anticipating getting). one of the things that made me stop going for a long time was the fact that in one children's service I went to, I saw them teach kids of pre school age about how great israel is as a country, and make them do puzzles about it in the service, i was pretty disgusted when i saw that and didnt go for ages and ages after that. ive heard people in the congregation say dodgy things, mostly zionism/israel related, but also the odd dodgy thing about gays, although i think they support gay marriage quite openly. its not a requirement of joining to be a zionist or anything but i think people with even my views would be in a bit of a minority (although increasingly not that much of one)

that doesnt mean i would be happy about say the edl or some conspiraloons group marching around there unopposed though, in fact i'd be fucking livid about it, especially if people didnt want to oppose the march and the reason given was "zionists palestine blah blah blah" i would be bitching about on here for fucking weeks

Id imagine people who grew up catholic and going to catholic churches and there was some orange/loyalist/fash parade in the area and then people were like "yeah but dont oppose it coz of the pope/child abuse/condoms" would equally piss people off wouldnt it?

i imagine there are some similarly unsavoury views in the local mosque and i know a lot of local churches have odd/dodgy views on abortion etc. im not familiar with this particular case so i might be talking shite but allowing the edl to march opposed somewhere or at least not organising any oppo to it because of the people organising the centre having dodgy views it might end up pissing people off that are nothing to do with it. Unless I am wrong and they really are a bunch of hardcore islamists but from what cesare said it didn't seem like it did If they were hardcore Islamists then fair enough, fuck em and feel free to ignore this post, but from what people are saying seems like just a community centre/mosque.

i think opposing the edl/bnp whenever they appear is a given. In fact the point is to oppose the edl/bnp regardless of who they target. Of course mosques are social and cultural centres, they are also political centres - that is institutions that underpin and express a particular form of localised power. The east london mosque (another building anarchists and radicals were ask to defend when edl came to town) for example was/is at the forefront of subduing the secular bengali identity in tower hamlets.
http://www.opendemocracy.net/democracy-protest/bangladeshi_3715.jsp
Of course being "white english folk" this doesn't touch us and we are not party to it. The only time we have any tangible contact is when a common enemy forces us together. This doesn't mean however we should go into these things uncritically. I don't know if slaf has any lgbt members or what their views would be knowing the kind of literature lewisham islamic centre is putting out, but you can certainly support the local muslim community without supporting it's institutions.

I think i have only seen peter tatchell (god bless him) actually address the issue of far right reactionary ideas being both present within the bnp/edl and islamist groups during these protests. Whitechapel Anarchist Group addressed the same issue when edl were to protest outside an islamic conference some years back.
http://whitechapelanarchistgroup.wo...hitechapel-united-against-division-june-20th/

 

[FNG]

more from whitechapel



also well worth reading http://antifascistnetwork.wordpress...-the-anti-edl-counter-demo-at-downing-street/

 

[andysays]

We can help you choose which look

 

[andysays]

I bet she hates that picture now, served her time and probably has nothing to do with radical politics now.

Know her, do you? If not, that's a fucking stupid and presumptuous thing to say.

I "know" the person in this equally iconic picture from another online forum

She's a grandmother now, and although she hasn't had a mounted copper swing a baton at her head recently, she's still just as radical now as she was then.

When her grandkids are old enough to understand what their gran did, they'll be proud of her, as will the grandkids of the woman in the Poll Tax Riot picture, if she ever has any

 

[The39thStep]

more from whitechapel

The rear end of a pantomime horse

 

[Buckaroo]

I bet she hates that picture now, served her time and probably has nothing to do with radical politics now.

She didn't serve any time.

 

[Corax]

She didn't serve any time.

 

[andysays]

There's a huge difference between us opposing the EDL etc directly, either by arguing against them, shouting them down or physically resisting them, on the one hand, and expecting the state to restrict their freedom of speech. The latter is equally (even more) likely to be turned back on us.

There's absolutely no contradiction between opposing any and all state-imposed restrictions on freedom of speech and attempting in whatever ways necessary to prevent the EDL from spreading their poison.

 

[The39thStep]

“Only one thing could have broken our movement – if our enemies had understood its principle and from the first day had smashed the nucleus of our movement with extreme brutality.”
(Adolf Hitler, 1933)

“If the enemy had known how weak we were, it would probably have reduced us to jelly. It would have crushed in blood the very beginning of our work.”
(J Goebbels, 1934)

Thing is Tom is that the most successful and violent anti fascism against the Nazis came from the KPD but they also politically fought them in the communities where they tried to recruit.Same as the CP did here.

Despite the rhetoric of physical force anti fascism the EDL have never been removed from the streets. They have never been smashed.
When it came to dealing with a period in which the BNP became the most successful fascist party in this country it was the failure of anti fascism to get its hands dirty politically which meant the BNP recruited and polled so well in some working class areas.

 

[J Ed]

.

 

[Fedayn]

Know her, do you? If not, that's a fucking stupid and presumptuous thing to say.

I "know" the person in this equally iconic picture from another online forum

She's a grandmother now, and although she hasn't had a mounted copper swing a baton at her head recently, she's still just as radical now as she was then.

When her grandkids are old enough to understand what their gran did, they'll be proud of her, as will the grandkids of the woman in the Poll Tax Riot picture, if she ever has any

I knew her in real life when she lived up here in Glasgow. A fine comrade.

 

[andysays]

I knew her in real life when she lived up here in Glasgow. A fine comrade.

Never met her in person, but as you say, a fine comrade.

Still radical, still active

 

[Sue]

He's clearly very naive to think that he will come out of this unscathed (the only Lib Dem I know reckons he'll soon be an independent and I'm inclined to believe it) but the obvious squirming and changing of the story suggests to me that he's either sympathetic or is attempting to appeal to those who are. Given that he's a Lib Dem and they generally don't really believe in anything beyond advancing their own careers I'm inclined to think that he did this for political capital. Which means he's also really fucking stupid.

He's an arse and absolutely hated the IWCA. Search for him and Lee Cole on the Oxford Mail website. On my phone and can't access it Funny.

 

[treelover]

Know her, do you? If not, that's a fucking stupid and presumptuous thing to say.

I "know" the person in this equally iconic picture from another online forum

She's a grandmother now, and although she hasn't had a mounted copper swing a baton at her head recently, she's still just as radical now as she was then.

When her grandkids are old enough to understand what their gran did, they'll be proud of her, as will the grandkids of the woman in the Poll Tax Riot picture, if she ever has any

so do I, quite well...

 

[treelover]

She didn't serve any time.

Ok, tell us what you know?

 

[ddraig]

come on, you made the accusation about her

 

[treelover]

bollocks, it was supposition, and plenty of young radicals give up on it all, why is that controversial otherwise the left would be massive and it isn't.

Oh and only on this cesspit of a thread(which has been mostly keyboard warriors) would my post be controversial, shooting the messenger , imo

 

[ddraig]

supposition? worra load of bollox
what message are you bringing btw?, must've missed it

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Christ. Been sifting through some numbnuttery - riddled with stuff as as this, from the comments section of an EDL News piece


kris bothwell 2013-06-02 13:58
i suggest you take this article about me of your website you are suggesting that i have nazi fantasys by posting 88/14w which is complete bullshit mr hastings you should get your facts right 88/14w refers to 22 march 1988 which is the day prince william was born

 

[SpineyNorman]

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the socialists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.

- M. Niemoller

He actually posted this. He really did.

And first they came for the Nazis. And I did not speak out because I was not a Nazi? A slight simplification but that's basically what you're saying.

 

[Streathamite]

But if we shut them away and ignore them and their lies, they'll just fester and grow, purely because we don't answer and expose them. It's the hard road, but it's the right road.

But they ARE out there 'in the open', usually with a massive police presence to guard them and uphold their rights (the cop show on Whitehall last Saturday was like Thatch's funeral all over again); and that is where we, in turn, oppose them. By any and all means necessary, including physical force.

 

[Streathamite]

How are you deciding what is 'true'? Quartz? On what grounds?

christ, there's STILL no answer to this one?
Enlighten us all pleaee, quartz

 

[Ranbay]

keyboard warriors - Internet Police - Fash

/end thread

 

[The39thStep]

keyboard warriors - Internet Police - Fash

/end thread

How's the allotment Bob?

 

[Streathamite]

And 'They' were the Communists in the Soviet Union.
And 'They' were the Communists in China.
And 'They' were the Peronists in Argentina.
And 'They' were the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia.
And 'They' were ZANU in Zimbabwe.
Etc.

Christ, why do you liberals always bring this one out?
First, if you think Peron & co committed genocide, you're dead wrong. In fact, oppressive as they were, they were far preferable to the Junta, and did a huge amount for the working classes, as you would expect a 'Workers Party' president to do, and broke the power of the oligarcicos. (PS: you picked the wrong country here, I know it backwards).
Second, none of the other regimes, vile as they were, compare like-for-like with the third reich, they need to be analysed differently. 'They' were not all the same. Equally, the far left in the Uk simply isn't comparable to the EDL and BNP.