Right here to Streathamite:
The implication being that he has somehow moved away from class politics and 'descended' into 'cultural' politics.
EDL in Tower Hamlets on 20/06
- Thread starter Bristly Pioneer
- Start date
Right here to Streathamite:
The implication being that he has somehow moved away from class politics and 'descended' into 'cultural' politics.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Didn't you actually start a thread on this? Why are you spamming it, are you involved?
edit: ok, seen report etc
edit: ok, seen report etc
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Looks like this is happening and the inevitable response, unless its a fake?
Why are you giving this publicity?
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
Joe90 said:
yeah, 'cos he has, by viewing issues of gender and such as somehow removed from the class struggle and as entities to be 'protested' in their own right. that's the opposite of what you accused me of when you said i was attempting to 'separate' class and gender.
I don't see how he is removing those things. It is you who is doing that and, indeed, only concerned with anti-fascism hence running around after the EDL with UAF.
That poster is so cool, can you buy them in Woolies?
Woolies are still online! I only just found that out the other day by the way!!!
http://www.woolworths.co.uk/
http://www.woolworths.co.uk/
I'll get one from Athena.
Or Fop.
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
well, no, 'cos that's not what i literally just said. what i said was the opposite - it's you guys who are failing to see the question of anti-fascism and gender politics outside the sphere of class politics (and attaining the unity of white and Muslim working classes).
So we "attain the unity of the Muslim working class" by not opposing fuckwits preaching misogyny and homophobia in the community we share with them? You've lost me mate. I don't see how turning a blind eye to it helps the working class Muslim community at all. I also don't understand why it should be divorced from class politics. Perhaps you see it that way because you are in fact middle class and only engage in anti-fascism as working class politics might contradict your position.
I dont know what you are all giving this Uberdog so much grief because his position seems to be the most consistent.
He obviously sees the class struggle as being the defining one. As things stand the majority of the Muslim population of this country would fall within that category and thus could provide, ultimately, a lot of support to the left who have frankly alienated their traditional foot soliders amongst the white working classes who cannot be trusted to actually do what they are told and who still adhere to all that nonsense about patriotism and so on.
Its the long game that matters so in the short term that means not alienating this new potential support from the working class Muslims.
It appears contradictory and on the face of it you would have thought that the SWP would have been the first to be calling for demos and the like at this venue but, and credit where it is due, they have kept their eye on the main prize.
I know that for most of you socialism has really become just another word for celebrating 'diversity' and being able to buy numerous different types of pasta in Waitrose but Uberdog and his colleagues strike me as being the ones keeping the red flag flying.
I might disagree with them and think them twats but at least they still have some notion of what it means to have a real political ideology and to pursue it as opposed to just wanting to feel good about yourself whilst secretly dreaming of that second home in Tuscany.
He obviously sees the class struggle as being the defining one. As things stand the majority of the Muslim population of this country would fall within that category and thus could provide, ultimately, a lot of support to the left who have frankly alienated their traditional foot soliders amongst the white working classes who cannot be trusted to actually do what they are told and who still adhere to all that nonsense about patriotism and so on.
Its the long game that matters so in the short term that means not alienating this new potential support from the working class Muslims.
It appears contradictory and on the face of it you would have thought that the SWP would have been the first to be calling for demos and the like at this venue but, and credit where it is due, they have kept their eye on the main prize.
I know that for most of you socialism has really become just another word for celebrating 'diversity' and being able to buy numerous different types of pasta in Waitrose but Uberdog and his colleagues strike me as being the ones keeping the red flag flying.
I might disagree with them and think them twats but at least they still have some notion of what it means to have a real political ideology and to pursue it as opposed to just wanting to feel good about yourself whilst secretly dreaming of that second home in Tuscany.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Right the class struggle is the most important one so we should ignore it. His position is all about race (and guilt) - he's the edl mirror image. I can see why a hard righter like you would lap him up - he's exactly what you need.
In fact, what a mad post, you're actually defending the SWP for what they've abandoned and what other are defending. Bizarre. What new potential support? Have you missed the last 10 years or something? Cross alliances almost broke the SWP. They were the fist calling for a demo - and on cross class grounds. wtf?
In fact, what a mad post, you're actually defending the SWP for what they've abandoned and what other are defending. Bizarre. What new potential support? Have you missed the last 10 years or something? Cross alliances almost broke the SWP. They were the fist calling for a demo - and on cross class grounds. wtf?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You're a fucking idiot.
Guilt my arse. Him and his comrades are just playing the cards that life has dealt them. Socialism got its arse kicked and seems dead and buried but they are still willing to give it go. But the point is that they are still playing as opposed to selling out to all those cosy notions about multi-cultrualism and equality which are actually the biggest con going because its all about a pick and mix approach based on what a bunch of soppy liberals want it to be.
And in the game it makes sense not to alienate a group that feel increasingly disenfranchised from the system that ultimately they want to topple. My enemies enemy and all that old baloney.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You're absolutely back to front - the SWP are the biggest defenders of multi-culturalism - the UAF's counter demos are all on the basis of support of MC. You've made an arse of yourself and have waded in at the wrong end -and have brought a walloping great strawman along with you.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
It's amazing that you can see tip-toeing around race and culture as a class approach. Esp posh-boy tip-toeing like hooverbags,
LOL. The SWP are just trying to keep themselves actually in a position to try and make a difference should 'events' go their way. Yes, they make all the right noises and the like but ultimately only ever defend 'multi-culturalism' when it serves their purpose i.e trying to be deemed as a friend to the Muslim. If they really gave a shit about it then they would be the ones leading the opposition to the sort of conference that EDL were going to protest against.
They dont believe in it one little bit because ultimately its at complete odds with any version of traditional socialism that you care to mention.
Are they opportunists ? Without a shadow of a doubt but given the disastorous position of the entire left in terms of the political spectrum surely thats the only way to be ?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Mental - so those cutting to the chase and organising around class lines without this damaging flannel and attacking top-down multi-culturalism (which the SWP do genuinely beleive in btw) are those celebrating 'diversity' - you waded in at the wrong end you clown.
Oh come off it.
Do you really believe that anybody in the SWP 'genuinely' believe in multi-culturalism ? Its pure opportunism on their part and with a real logic behind it.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I couldn't care fucking less - the fact is that your defence of them and attack on others confuses the positions of both sides - it reverses them in fact. Oddball.
Froggie said
'Why are you giving this publicity?'
Because it may be happening and will cause chaos if it does, however, I asked for a main thread to be pulled on it because it looks quite suspect, in fact it looks(the poster) like the very polished work the RCP used to do, but on this thread, tucked away on protest imo, it is an entirely legitimate discussion topic.
'Why are you giving this publicity?'
Because it may be happening and will cause chaos if it does, however, I asked for a main thread to be pulled on it because it looks quite suspect, in fact it looks(the poster) like the very polished work the RCP used to do, but on this thread, tucked away on protest imo, it is an entirely legitimate discussion topic.
The SWP have always been arch opportunists. Sadly they are preety dam useless at it.
The reason a lot of other lefties hate them is they are marginally more succesful...A lot of other lefties have very similar top down politics but are a bit embarrased by oppportunism....which holds them back.
In reality a lot of their politics is very similar to the SWPs....They all talk about the MASSES>>>>>but view them as not much better as a piece of dog shit on their shoes.
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
how is my argument about race and guilt? point to where i've claimed the white population should self-flaggelate themselves for the crimes of their forefathers? what have i actually said which is in any way related to that point?
evidently you don't understand class - and you're quite happy to let the most disenfranchised working class community in Britain continue to be sidelined whilst you dance along to your soppish liberal harp. you're former RA intcha, butcha? might go some way to explaining your innaccurate white blokey take on w/c unity.
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