EDL in Tower Hamlets on 20/06
- Thread starter Bristly Pioneer
- Start date
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
I think the political impact of Saudi money is overstated; what we've seen in recent years is a universal movement within the Islamic community away from secularized nationalism and towards theological Islamism, which corresponds more directly to the defeat of secular national liberationist projects and their replacement with Islamist intellectual and activist currents (and also the comparative 'successes' of reactionary bodies like the Taliban and Hamas in achieving real power) rather than the direction of cash-flows.
What institutional protection are Saudi princes capable of offering to this Troxy group, anyway? Ultimately, any sway the Saudi aristocracy might be able to wield over the Islamic community is compromised by their overrall commitment to capitalism, and thus the state entities from which Western Capital is organized.
ohmyliver
poppin' like a cork
Sorry. I thought it was a piss-take
ahh, ok... I'm very tired, and very over caffinated... but people like Das Uberdog get on my wick... didn't realise I'd descended into barely intelligable hyperbolic parody...
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
i'd love to rub your face in a pavement you tanky piece of shit. you gonna be around in Tower Hamlets attacking muslims at this meeting, eh? maybe we can meet up.
made perfect sense to me
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
there are 6,000 saudi princes, many of whom are sympathetic to the sort of vile views on parade at the troxy on 20/6, and of course there is a saudi cleric on the bill
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
carry on chief, with every post you make it clearer that - as i said above - you know not of what you witter.
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
and every time you try and mess around with perfectly reasonable grammatical constructions you further prove what a pretentious ass you are
ohmyliver
poppin' like a cork
Saudi is considered the 'gold standard' for a lot of Sunni muslims. Despite Saudi's clear breaks with what the Koran says on things like marriage. It pays for the constructions of Masjeeds and pays for Imams to preach its version of Islam. That's a fairly big sway.
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
no, not at all - i've seen it. if you were wading in on my side then i'd still rather not be represented by the bile-machine that is the IoI.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Unintentional hits the spot too. Hopefully Das Uberdog will be sporting a helpful 'I'm the nutbobbins' placard if he shows up on the 20th.
Cigarette paper
New Member
Why haven't you provided us with any examples?
Scapegoating is a pretty serious allegation, especially considering the fact that our previous government spent millions upon millions on Muslim communities during its mandate.
The previous government had Muslim ministers, our new government has a Muslim woman minister.
Sure, Tony Blair supported a reprehensible war in Iraq but it wasn't done out of religious motivations. Tony Blair also led Britain into wars against Serbia, was that an example of scapegoating Slavs or Orthodox Christians for a domestic political agenda? What about the boots on the ground in Sierra Leone, an example of racism against blacks?
It's hardly Kristallnacht.
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
how about every piece of domestic 'terror' legislation that's been introduced since 2001? endless policy announcements from the Home Office on a weekly basis under John Reid in the Blair years; attacks on the right to wear the veil, paranoid security threat announcements, often entirely fabricated (such as the Old Trafford incident), i really could go on but tbh the fact you have evidently not bothered to look around at the outside world for the past decade really makes me resent it.
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
well how come the veer towards more reactionary forms of Islam have only been occurring since the 80s and the success of the Taliban against the Russians (alongside the destruction of the secular and left-wing movements like the PLO in Palestine and general lefty modernization projects like that of Nassers, etc)? sure, the Saudi's played their part in the destruction of these campaigns, but you can hardly claim that the reversion to this belief isn't a desperate move in the absence of a practical alternative to fighting imperialism?
Cigarette paper
New Member
The previous government's policy on civil liberties was absolutely atrocious.
The government cynically used September 11th and the 7th of July as an excuse to attack the freedom of the individual. For example, the Racial and Religious Hatred Act from 2006 has effectively curtailed our right to free speech. However, as much as I disagree with this act, as I do much of the anti-terrorist legislation, it has been applied to Muslim and non-Muslim alike.
In any case, none of this legislation is aimed at the average Muslim and I'm still waiting for an example of the state scapegoating the Muslim community.
As far as attacks on the veil are concerned, Jack Straw may have been insensitive in suggesting that Muslim women should not wear the niqab or a burqba but quite frankly to suggest that he or any other mainstream British politican suggested an outright ban of the garment is misleading. In any case, there is a huge difference between wearing a woman covering her hair and a woman covering her entire face. Jack Straw criticised the latter, not the former. Most Muslim women do not cover their face.
I suppose what I am looking for is any examples of the state actually persecuting Muslims for being Muslims, or suggesting that Muslims are responsible for the ills of the country... something like that. That is what scapegoating is and you haven't provided any examples like that.
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
how on earth can you say that stop and search powers under section 44 aren't impacting upon ordinary muslims? what about state propaganda about 'radical mosques' or central diktat that Imams have to rat on children 'at risk of radicalization'? huge cctv presences in Islamic neighbourhoods (as recently uncovered by the Guardian in Birmingham) and massive surveillance operations overhwelming any reasonable assessment of risk? have you seriously missed all of this?
Cigarette paper
New Member
This legislation is regularly abused, however those who it is used against are often non-Muslim.
State propaganda about radical Mosques? Uhh, I'm not sure what you mean by that. Do you mean reports of extremist views in Mosques in the mainstream media? Well, that does come up in the media but I would imagine that is because there are Muslims who hold these views! When extremist reactionary views are held by Christians, this is brought up too! See http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2010/apr/05/religion-christianity-andrew-brown
I haven't heard about disproportionate amounts of CCTV in Muslim communities though it doesn't surprise me... but again, it's not as if Muslims are specifically watched by CCTV. Aren't we the most watched country in the world?
In any case, even if any of this WAS aimed exclusively at Muslims then none of it would be an example of the state scapegoating the Muslim community for the ills of the country.
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
this is insane - every single one of these powers and developments has disproportionately affected the Muslim community. What, do you want the State to actually produce an officially Islamophobic statement of intent before you'll see any kind of anti-Muslim agenda at play?
Cigarette paper
New Member
Do you have any statistics for that?
Luther Blissett
Nomadologist
Which state are you talking about? EDL aren't connected to the British State at all.
audiotech
wav, aiff, mp3, ogg, flac
"Thou doth protest....", etc and don't flatter yourself.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
audiotech
wav, aiff, mp3, ogg, flac
Strange, given that several EDL leaders are pro-israel and the Israeli flag is always displayed at their 'demo's'. Sounds like someone simple and filled with hate.
The major difference being that London gangs can claim to come from London which neither the twats preaching misogyny at the troxy or the edl bussed in from the midlands can.
What about you das? where are you being bussed in from?
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
Ok dickhead
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