EDL in Tower Hamlets on 20/06

[frogwoman]

I'd say it's essential to protest against both, especially since mosques and other Muslim venues have stated they are not welcome.

 

[Das Uberdog]

you fucking morons, what good can come of your retarded demonstration against Troxy that couldn't have been achieved far better by simply ignoring them? they are not a threat the Western society, they're an isolated bunch of weirdos. the EDL is, however, quite happy to use them as a stick with which to beat the Islamic community as a whole, and you're buying into it.

this 'threat' from radical Islam is non-existant. the very real threat from black London gangs is far more prevalent on the streets of London - yet somehow everyone here recognizes (or at least they fucking should) that only racists and liberal-opportunists would join in with a right-wing tirade against 'black muggers'. the NF tried building a United Front on that very basis in the 70s, and were rightly routed. how come the "intelligentsia" of Urban can't see the brazen parallels in strategy and tactics used by the EDL, or the similarities of reactions from two different oppressed communities in different cultural and historical contexts?

 

[Cigarette paper]

you fucking morons, what good can come of your retarded demonstration against Troxy that couldn't have been achieved far better by simply ignoring them? they are not a threat the Western society, they're an isolated bunch of weirdos. the EDL is, however, quite happy to use them as a stick with which to beat the Islamic community as a whole, and you're buying into it.

Couldn't you just use your same argument vis-a-vis Islamists to suggest that since the white working-class is disenfranchised, it isn't legitimate to protest against the EDL?

Seems silly.

 

[Cigarette paper]

that only racists and liberal-opportunists would join in with a right-wing tirade against 'black muggers'.

I would hope that most decent people would be willing to voice opposition to mugging, regardless of who is doing the mugging.

 

[cesare]

how about

"We're protesting against both of you outsider divisive elements coming into the area we live and trying to shit stir, neither of your groups are from here, you're both bussing in people in the hope of causing further division in our community. You should both fuck off and take your backwards, nasty opinions with you."

Aye. They can all fuck off.

 

[TopCat]

you fucking morons, what good can come of your retarded demonstration against Troxy that couldn't have been achieved far better by simply ignoring them? they are not a threat the Western society, they're an isolated bunch of weirdos. the EDL is, however, quite happy to use them as a stick with which to beat the Islamic community as a whole, and you're buying into it.

this 'threat' from radical Islam is non-existant. the very real threat from black London gangs is far more prevalent on the streets of London - yet somehow everyone here recognizes (or at least they fucking should) that only racists and liberal-opportunists would join in with a right-wing tirade against 'black muggers'. the NF tried building a United Front on that very basis in the 70s, and were rightly routed. how come the "intelligentsia" of Urban can't see the brazen parallels in strategy and tactics used by the EDL, or the similarities of reactions from two different oppressed communities in different cultural and historical contexts?

It's obviously because we are morons.

((((poor morons))))

 

[Das Uberdog]

Couldn't you just use your same argument vis-a-vis Islamists to suggest that since the white working-class is disenfranchised, it isn't legitimate to protest against the EDL?

Seems silly.

you're presuming that a) the EDL is working class (i think they have a higher working-class demographic than many groups on the left, but i also know that of the EDL members I know personally (from school and shit) they're almost all white-van men's sons, petit bourgeois suburban estate types) and b) that the EDL's attack on Islam is an expression of their disenfranchisement.

In practice, it is not. It is an expression of their ethnic superiority (in a real sense; their cause is not unjustifiable by the establishment's own agenda. In fact, their 'intellectual' basis is entirely sound on the establishment's own agenda, the state only has issue with their 'thuggery'). The Islamic community has no such institutional support. It is in no way a danger to our society or to the left, and attacking it can only have a counter-productive effect in reaching out to politicised muslims with whom this group may carry underlying cultural/subcultural sympathies.

 

[Das Uberdog]

I would hope that most decent people would be willing to voice opposition to mugging, regardless of who is doing the mugging.

You're either willfully ignoring the fact that there is a direct political motivation underlying a campaign against 'muggers' (such as the 1970s NF campaign) or you're just stupid. Such 'issues' do not exist in some kind of abstracted isolation from real social relationships.

 

[past caring]

Who is this silly cunt?

 

[Cigarette paper]

you're presuming that a) the EDL is working class (i think they have a higher working-class demographic than many groups on the left, but i also know that of the EDL members I know personally (from school and shit) they're almost all white-van men's sons, petit bourgeois suburban estate types) and b) that the EDL's attack on Islam is an expression of their disenfranchisement.

In practice, it is not. It is an expression of their ethnic superiority (in a real sense; their cause is not unjustifiable by the establishment's own agenda. In fact, their 'intellectual' basis is entirely sound on the establishment's own agenda, the state only has issue with their 'thuggery'). The Islamic community has no such institutional support. It is in no way a danger to our society or to the left, and attacking it can only have a counter-productive effect in reaching out to politicised muslims with whom this group may carry underlying cultural/subcultural sympathies.

Hmm?

What do you mean by institutional support? The EDL are roundly condemned by all and sundry. Sure, there are some articles in the tabloid press that could be used to by the EDL to justify their bigotry but you could say the same of Islamists and the left-wing media! Neither the right-wing media nor the left media do anything but condemn both.

 

[treelover]

'Couldn't you just use your same argument vis-a-vis Islamists to suggest that since the white working-class is disenfranchised, it isn't legitimate to protest against the EDL?

Seems silly.'


Uberdog believes in the theory of the hierarchy of the oppressed, he has also read 'The Wretched of the Earth' you know.

 

[audiotech]

"The Real Battle of Cable Street."

Documentary.

http://current.com/news/92353445_the-real-battle-of-cable-street.htm

 

[treelover]

The Islamic community has no such institutional support

Well, the extreme bits do, from Saudi at least

 

[Cigarette paper]

You're either willfully ignoring the fact that there is a direct political motivation underlying a campaign against 'muggers' (such as the 1970s NF campaign) or you're just stupid. Such 'issues' do not exist in some kind of abstracted isolation from real social relationships.

Huh?

Are you trying to suggest that it isn't possible to be against mugging without having some sort of ethnocentric motivation?

 

[Das Uberdog]

Hmm?

What do you mean by institutional support? The EDL are roundly condemned by all and sundry. Sure, there are some articles in the tabloid press that could be used to by the EDL to justify their bigotry but you could say the same of Islamists and the left-wing media! Neither the right-wing media nor the left media do anything but condemn both.

their professed ideological agenda is totally and utterly compatible with the State's project of social control, and with the establishment's scapegoating of migrant communities. surely you can see that!? the biggest argument the mainstream press have against the EDL is that they're uncomfortable watching ordinary people take these 'legitimate' views into their own hands and doing something about it, where they should rest their faith in the arbitrating powers of the state's legal and judiciary functions.

 

[Das Uberdog]

Huh?

Are you trying to suggest that it isn't possible to be against mugging without having some sort of ethnocentric motivation?

i'm arguing that for the left to spearhead a campaign against 'muggers' in a political situation in which the evils of 'black muggers' is as prevalent in the media as it was in the 70s is insane. you're joining in with the state and her liberal allies chorus of condemnation over periodically politicised issues (mugging, immigration, terrorism, ethnic tension, football hooliganism, etc) and aiding their ideological agenda! i'm not asking you to accept mugging or terrorism as some legitimate expression of anger, i'm just asking you to be a bit more fucking savvy as to your political alliances and the broader impact of your campaign in real society.

 

[Das Uberdog]

"The Real Battle of Cable Street."

Documentary.

http://current.com/news/92353445_the-real-battle-of-cable-street.htm

thank you for posting up that ridiculous piece of shit published by the bizarre autonimists from the former RCP, AKA spiked! online, AKA the Institute of Ideas, AKA Frank Furedi and Claire Fox, AKA 'Worldbytes'...

 

[Cigarette paper]

their professed ideological agenda is totally and utterly compatible with the State's project of social control, and with the establishment's scapegoating of migrant communities. surely you can see that!? the biggest argument the mainstream press have against the EDL is that they're uncomfortable watching ordinary people take these 'legitimate' views into their own hands and doing something about it, where they should rest their faith in the arbitrating powers of the state's legal and judiciary functions.

Can you provide some examples of this scapegoating of Muslims by the state?

 

[Cigarette paper]

i'm arguing that for the left to spearhead a campaign against 'muggers' in a political situation in which the evils of 'black muggers' is as prevalent in the media as it was in the 70s is insane. you're joining in with the state and her liberal allies chorus of condemnation over periodically politicised issues (mugging, immigration, terrorism, ethnic tension, football hooliganism, etc) and aiding their ideological agenda! i'm not asking you to accept mugging or terrorism as some legitimate expression of anger, i'm just asking you to be a bit more fucking savvy as to your political alliances and the broader impact of your campaign in real society.

I guess that black communities, who surely suffer from mugging by other members of their communities the most, are racist for not approving of mugging?

 

[audiotech]

What was to me the most uplifting was seeing bearded Jews and Irish Catholic dockers side by side behind the barricades.......

...

 

[Das Uberdog]

Can you provide some examples of this scapegoating of Muslims by the state?

have you been living under a fucking rock for the past 15 years? je-zuz... when i actually do try and engage with someone this is the brain-dead inanity i recieve.

 

[Das Uberdog]

I guess that black communities, who surely suffer from mugging by other members of their communities the most, are racist for not approving of mugging?

wtf?

 

[ohmyliver]

The ultra-Salafist contingent (such as Bidal Philips et al) as pointed out above are backed by Saudi petro-dollars. This is hardly a marginalised body, althoughthe British Muslim community is somewhat marginalised. More importantly it is the islamic equivilant of the BNP preaching a supremecist the kuffir versus the believers black and white 2d version of Islam. Why shouldn't it be opposed by the left? Are the brothers who drove Ajem Choudry and his band of bearded nutters out of Luton also being counter-productive?

This money that Saudi has pumped into the Ummah has had a definite effect. I'll give you an example, I recently took part in a Nikkah in the midlands, it was completely sexually segregated right up to almost the end of the reception. Nikkahs in the 70s and early 80s in the very same community had un segregated receptions. Saudi money has been pushing their austeer 'southern baptist' burn in the hellfire, the shaytan is everywhere waiting to corrupt you, interpretation of islam since the 1980s.

*eta*
The counter march by local anarchists against both the EDL and the Troxy mob gets my support, they see the devisiveness of both sets of extremists.

 

[cesare]

The ultra-Salafist contingent (such as Bidal Philips et al) as pointed out above are backed by Saudi petro-dollars. This is hardly a marginalised body, althoughthe British Muslim community is somewhat marginalised. More importantly it is the islamic equivilant of the BNP preaching a supremecist the kuffir versus the believers black and white 2d version of Islam. Why shouldn't it be opposed by the left? Are the brothers who drove Ajem Choudry and his band of bearded nutters out of Luton also being counter-productive?

This money that Saudi has pumped into the Ummah has had a definite effect. I'll give you an example, I recently took part in a Nikkah in the midlands, it was completely sexually segregated right up to almost the end of the reception. Nikkahs in the 70s and early 80s in the very same community had un segregated receptions. Saudi money has been pushing their austeer 'southern baptist' burn in the hellfire, the shaytan is everywhere waiting to corrupt you, interpretation of islam since the 1980s.

*eta*
The counter march by local anarchists against both the EDL and the Troxy mob gets my support, they see the devisiveness of both sets of extremists.

 

[ohmyliver]

eh?

 

[cesare]

eh?

Sorry. I thought it was a piss-take

 

[audiotech]

thank you for posting up that ridiculous piece of shit published by the bizarre autonimists from the former RCP, AKA spiked! online, AKA the Institute of Ideas, AKA Frank Furedi and Claire Fox, AKA 'Worldbytes'...

I somehow doubt that you watched this before you posted the rant?

 

[ernestolynch]

i'm arguing that for the left to spearhead a campaign against 'muggers' in a political situation in which the evils of 'black muggers' is as prevalent in the media as it was in the 70s is insane. you're joining in with the state and her liberal allies chorus of condemnation over periodically politicised issues (mugging, immigration, terrorism, ethnic tension, football hooliganism, etc) and aiding their ideological agenda! i'm not asking you to accept mugging or terrorism as some legitimate expression of anger, i'm just asking you to be a bit more fucking savvy as to your political alliances and the broader impact of your campaign in real society.

You are seriously radio rental, you racist trot cunt.

 

[Pickman's model]

have you been living under a fucking rock for the past 15 years? je-zuz... when i actually do try and engage with someone this is the brain-dead inanity i recieve.

only because of the brain-dead wank you post.

 

[ernestolynch]

I reckon it's Martin