Ed Sheeran v Marvin Gaye

[danny la rouge]

The closest that the complaint can get is that the Sheeran song may be a contrafact Contrafact - Wikipedia

If it wins on that basis, then literally all popular music is fucked.

 

[mojo pixy]

OK, so I’ve listened more to the chord structures. Both Ed and Marvin have used the most common pop song structure for the A section (if you’re in C major it’s C/Am/F/G7). As already noted, literally millions of songs do that. In other sections Let’s Get it On does the common variation of C/Em/F/G7. Both songs do that. Again, this is not remarkable. Literally millions of songs do that.

If the argument is that using the substitution of Am with Em is what’s unique, then that’s bollocks. Millions of songs do that.

They both have a slow soul groove. You can’t copyright a slow soul groove.

I have now heard more Ed Sheeran than I ever anticipated I would. As a result I hate Marvin Gaye’s family. But I’ve tried to be fair.

In my view, this case has no merit at all.

I actually think it's deliberate and obvious .. but not a rip off ffs, at least only facetiously a rip-off because yeah Sheeran is well aware of what he did with this tune. IMO it's a tribute .. a quote, a nod to our communal musical heritage. And it's great, that is it's one of the few Sheeran songs I don't hate .. probably because it's so similar to Let's Get it On. But suing over it? Oh just fuck off, who cares anyway, it's pop music. It's obviously about money not a principle, Sheeran just sells more than Marvin Gaye so I'm not surprised this is happening. I hope they lose.

 

[ska invita]

If it wins on that basis, then literally all popular music is fucked.

It always feels like music copyright law is one ruling away from the apocalypse...that one anti De La Soul ruling in around 1991 crushed the use of samples in hip hop... currently there are these cases going through also

Steely & Clevie Has Trouble Tracking Down Some Reggaeton Artists, Producers In ‘Dem Bow’ Copyright Lawsuit

Steely & Clevie Productions Ltd says that, despite its best efforts, it has been unable to effect service of its copyright infringement complaint on

www.dancehallmag.com

56 songs being sued for copyright effectively for use of a drum pattern, though in reality there are hundreds more out there that also use it...much as i respect steely and clevie, this is wrong on so many levels. also the very notion of reggae producers, who all endless reuse other peoples rhythm tracks, suing for copyright is barefaced

i tend to fall in the fuck all copyright category, though clearly it stings if someone is making fortunes off your work. there must be a better way than this

 

[Spymaster]

Think I'd get a finders fee if I grass you up?

OP edited, just in case.

 

[Cid]

The closest that the complaint can get is that the Sheeran song may be a contrafact Contrafact - Wikipedia

If it wins on that basis, then literally all popular music is fucked.

One of the problems here is that the US makes extensive use of juries in civil trials... And they have their batshit selection processes that attempt to remove bias by winnowing out jurors who might be familiar with the subjects. Which you can imagine might end up excluding anyone who isn't completely tone-deaf. Although stress I don't know the full details of that process. Juries are only supposed to decide matters of fact, but trials are complex, particularly ones that hinge on narrow technical details. This is where Pharrell and Thicke got stumped... Katy Perry, when she was sued by Flame, applied for a motion to make a ruling of law, which can bypass the jury element. She failed, and jury found against her, but she was able to renew it and the judge - presumably looking at his docket for the next few decades and thinking 'nope' - overruled that. Zeppelin/Taurus case had also just been decided in Zeppelin's favour, which was a factor. It seems the ninth circuit are more inclined to shut this stuff down than they were, and - assuming Sheeran's lawyers in this $100m dollar case know what they're doing - that may well apply here.

 

[Voley]

OK, so I’ve listened more to the chord structures. Both Ed and Marvin have used the most common pop song structure for the A section (if you’re in C major it’s C/Am/F/G7). As already noted, literally millions of songs do that. In other sections Let’s Get it On does the common variation of C/Em/F/G7. Both songs do that. Again, this is not remarkable. Literally millions of songs do that.

If the argument is that using the substitution of Am with Em is what’s unique, then that’s bollocks. Millions of songs do that.

They both have a slow soul groove. You can’t copyright a slow soul groove.

I have now heard more Ed Sheeran than I ever anticipated I would. As a result I hate Marvin Gaye’s family. But I’ve tried to be fair.

In my view, this case has no merit at all.

Perhaps unsurprisingly, there's American case law that's really weird about this. The Robin Thicke one that he lost -and I chuckled about- wasn't even over a slow soul groove. They sued over it's "vibe". And won. It's fucking nuts frankly.

The $5 million 'Blurred Lines' legal fight over the song's 'vibe' could permanently change the music industry

In 2013, the family of Marvin Gaye — protectors of a universally beloved soul artist — sued Robin Thicke and Pharrell along with their label.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[danny la rouge]

I actually think it's deliberate and obvious

It may be a conscious contrafact. But it’s pretty lightly done if so.

 

[Jimmy Don't]

 

[Looby]

I can’t be objective here because I can’t stand Sheeran’s music but it does sound very similar. I have no idea whether is it technically. Doesn’t he have form for this?

It’s quite a talent to rip off classic tracks and still make them absolute dogshit.

My favourite accidental rip off is Belle and Sebastian happily paying royalties to Cliff Richard for Wrapped Up In Books.

 

[mojo pixy]

I can’t be objective here because I can’t stand Sheeran’s music but it does sound very similar. I have no idea whether is it technically. Doesn’t he have form for this?

Yes he does, he uses other people's music all the time. "Contrafracting" is a new word for me (thanks danny la rouge ) but that's exactly what this is. I used to do it a lot, a lot of especially singer-songwriters do IME and the only problem comes when you sell trillions and someone wants their cut. Mostly that doesn't happen so it's not a problem, but Sheeran has big pockets...

 

[Spymaster]

Doesn’t he have form for this?

He was sued by a fella called Sami Switch for Shape of You, which the former claimed nicked lyrics from his song Oh Why.

Sheeran won that case though, but to me, there's a far greater similarity than there is in this current case.

 

[ska invita]

Perhaps unsurprisingly, there's American case law that's really weird about this. The Robin Thicke one that he lost -and I chuckled about- wasn't even over a slow soul groove. They sued over it's "vibe". And won. It's fucking nuts frankly.

The $5 million 'Blurred Lines' legal fight over the song's 'vibe' could permanently change the music industry

In 2013, the family of Marvin Gaye — protectors of a universally beloved soul artist — sued Robin Thicke and Pharrell along with their label.

www.businessinsider.com

tbf they didnt sue over a "vibe", they claimed that "many of the main vocal and instrumental themes of "Blurred Lines" are rooted in "Got to Give It Up"; namely, the signature phrase, vocal hook, backup vocal hook, their variations, and the keyboard and bass lines" and "the substantial similarities are the result of many of the same deliberate creative choices made by their respective composers."
and it does sound a lot like it, thought that before the case was brought
and Pharrell admitted in an interview he “reversed-engineered" Give It Up

 

[friedaweed]

I quite like Ed Sheeran and so does my wife.

This is our current favourite



Total none story.

Here's Tom with the weather..

 

[CNT36]

Whenever this happens I always think how much cooler Elvis Costello was about it:

Elvis Costello defends Olivia Rodrigo over Brutal plagiarism claim

Elvis Costello gives a relaxed response after pop star Olivia Rodrigo is accused of copying his music.

www.bbc.com

Olivia also had a pop at a Paramore song so much so I asked a colleague why radio 1 were playing Paramore so much in this day and age. I googled it and IIRC she ended up giving them a cut. Interesting youtube video on it somewhere (this one I think) taking in Greenday and Taylor Swift along the way.

 

[Voley]

My favourite accidental rip off is Belle and Sebastian happily paying royalties to Cliff Richard

I hadn't heard of that one. Similarly, Noel Gallagher reckons he'd never heard "How Sweet To Be An Idiot" by Neil Innes but it still cost him six figures or something.

ETA: Bit more clear cut, this one.

 

[Voley]

Olivia also had a pop at a Paramore song so much so I asked a colleague why radio 1 were playing Paramore so much in this day and age. I googled it and IIRC she ended up giving them a cut. Interesting youtube video on it somewhere (this one I think) taking in Greenday and Taylor Swift along the way.

I quite like Brutal by her. It's a bit of a whiny lyric but I'm old so what do I know? The riff's ace. Its almost completely Elvis Costello's but he didn't care. I really like that too.

Without wanting to go all postmodern "It's the end of history" and all that, there is only a finite amount of notes so some stuffs going to be recycled now. Be a real shame if people are scared off releasing stuff because it sounds like an older tune.

 

[surreybrowncap]

I hadn't heard of that one. Similarly, Noel Gallagher reckons he'd never heard "How Sweet To Be An Idiot" by Neil Innes but it still cost him six figures or something.

ETA: Bit more clear cut, this one.

And of course Neil Innes was sued by ATV Music.
They were the current owners of publishing rights to The Beatles Catalogue.
A bit harsh on Innes - The Rutles songs were parodies - quite brilliant pastiches ...

 

[Dr. Furface]

The tempo and drums are almost identical but there must be loads of other similar songs, and the rest of it doesn't sound that similar to me. In any case, the Sheeran one is abysmal; Marvin's is fab.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

I've never heard any of ed sheeran's music.

 

[weltweit]

 

[MickiQ]

I quite like Ed Sheeran and so does my wife.

This is our current favourite



Total none story.

Here's Tom with the weather..

He's very variable I find some of his stuff really good but some of it leaves me cold. That song is quite good though the usual video is annoying. Him just jamming with the band is much better.
My Son's young lady is a massive fan and she persuaded Son Q to go to the Ed Sheeran concert at Wembley last year with her. Son Q was definitely not a Sheeran fan before going and isn't much of one now but he did say the concert was excellent and he really enjoyed it.
Whatever you might think of his music Sheeran is clearly a talented individual. As for the OP the songs don't sound all that similar to tbh.

 

[Chilli.s]

I had one of my designs nicked by a manufacturer who copied it and wholesaled it with slight differences that made the manufacture easier...

I put it down to being in the nature of creativity, did not persue it

 

[cesare]

Ed Sheeran is being sued by the family of Marvin Gaye's co-writer, Ed Townsend, who claim that his song Thinking Out Loud, copies Gaye's Let's Get It On.

Here's a comparison:



I don't get where Townsend’s side are coming from.

Interested in opinions from musicians.

existentialist danny la rouge

cesare , can you give Button a shout? Can't seem to tag him.

I'll try but we're beset with Covid so might not get a response straight away

 

[Steel Icarus]

You can swap back and forth between Teenager in Love (Dion and the Belmonts), Stir it Up (Bob Marley), and Oliver’s Army (Elvis Costello), just as an example, because they all go C/Am/F/G. None of them are rip offs of the other.

And the choruses of New Order (Round and Round), Gaga (Bad Romance) and Black Kids (I'm not gonna teach my boyfriend how to dance with you)

 

[friedaweed]

He's very variable I find some of his stuff really good but some of it leaves me cold. That song is quite good though the usual video is annoying. Him just jamming with the band is much better.
My Son's young lady is a massive fan and she persuaded Son Q to go to the Ed Sheeran concert at Wembley last year with her. Son Q was definitely not a Sheeran fan before going and isn't much of one now but he did say the concert was excellent and he really enjoyed it.
Whatever you might think of his music Sheeran is clearly a talented individual. As for the OP the songs don't sound all that similar to tbh.

I think he's a great talented lad, just doing his own thing. I'm not sure why he comes in for the stick, he's more original than most of the cast out there. I met his mum in Hebden Bridge once so I've a bit of a soft spot for him because she was lovely to my eldest and spent quite a bit of time talking to her about her hobby.

My neice and nephew are nuts on Sheeran so when they're over at Christmas we have an Ed dance off. They teach me and my brother the moves. It's a bit funny when your 8 yr old ginger nephew is throwing shapes at you singing "I'm in love with your body".

 

[Steel Icarus]

OK, so I’ve listened more to the chord structures. Both Ed and Marvin have used the most common pop song structure for the A section (if you’re in C major it’s C/Am/F/G7). As already noted, literally millions of songs do that. In other sections Let’s Get it On does the common variation of C/Em/F/G7. Both songs do that. Again, this is not remarkable. Literally millions of songs do that.

If the argument is that using the substitution of Am with Em is what’s unique, then that’s bollocks. Millions of songs do that.

They both have a slow soul groove. You can’t copyright a slow soul groove.

I have now heard more Ed Sheeran than I ever anticipated I would. As a result I hate Marvin Gaye’s family. But I’ve tried to be fair.

In my view, this case has no merit at all.

Yep. For instance "Daddy's Gone" by Glasvegas uses (in whatever key) C-Am-F-G for the verses and C-Em-F-G for the chorus

 

[the button]

Yeah I heard this on the radio this morning, it's nothing like, other than that they're both songs.

 

[the button]

I'll try but we're beset with Covid so might not get a response straight away

I tested negative this morning, reckon I can avoid it by never doing another test

 

[danny la rouge]

Hi the button

 

[friedaweed]

Yep. For instance "Daddy's Gone" by Glasvegas uses (in whatever key) C-Am-F-G for the verses and C-Em-F-G for the chorus

I play about 5 songs with more or less that chords structure. In open G or double drop D tuning you've probably got half of Neil Young's repetoir cracked with those chords too.