Driving Standards

[Poi E]

You do the crime you do the time. Bloody snowflakes.

 

[dervish]

It's discretionary but noone gets done for less. Occasionally people claim to have been done for 31, 71, etc, but noone ever evidences it.

It came up because someone had been done on a gantry cam at 2mph over.

 

[mauvais]

It came up because someone had been done on a gantry cam at 2mph over.

I'll stick a tenner in the server fund if someone can provide a copy of a NIP that shows this.

A few authorities are talking about removing the leeway but I don't think anyone's done it.

 

[T & P]

I rented a new-ish VW Polo last week and there was a 3 mph discrepancy between the traditional speedometer and the electronic display one. I don't buy for a second that speedometer technology is now infallible, certainly when talking about 2 mph differences.

FWIW I myself doubt most of these 'been done for going 2 mph over the limit' stories are true, but it would certainly be a cunt's trick to fine people for such a ludicrously small margin. It would also be counterproductive as far safety is concerned of course.

 

[bimble]

As a new driver it’s been a bit of a revelation that almost nobody seems to actually take any notice of the speed limit, whether it’s on 20mph roads or on motorways. I honestly thought speed limits were a real thing until now. People seem to know where the cameras are and just drive accordingly.

 

[T & P]

As a new driver it’s been a bit of a revelation that almost nobody seems to actually take any notice of the speed limit, whether it’s on 20mph roads or on motorways. I honestly thought speed limits were a real thing until now. People seem to know where the cameras are and just drive accordingly.

Despite some people being complete idiots at the wheel, the majority of drivers are actually competent enough to judge an appropriate speed based on the circumstances. The motoring laws however are inflexible and often err on the ultra cautious, so it is not surprising that most drivers will exceed the speed limits on some roads and in some circumstances to some degree.

Going 5-10 mph (and sometimes more, but I will not get into that now) over the 70 mph limit on motorways can be perfectly safe, or pretty much as reasonably safe as doing 70 mph. Ditto main urban roads that have been recently slapped a 20 mph limit that is so laughably inappropriate, it is no surprise virtually 100% of all drivers ignore it. You will soon eventually, I suspect. And in the right circumstances, there will be absolutely nothing wrong with that.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I would venture that the people who claim to have been done 2mph over in fact mean that they were 2mph over the 10% + 2mph, 37 in a 30 kind of thing.

 

[cybershot]

Got a dash cam now so may upload some footage. Right pleb yesterday who was in left lane (a turn left only lane at the island) to do a right, weaving in and out of traffic then ploughs through a red light.

Sadly WMP don't have a system up yet to accept dashcam footage, will prob upload it to Youtube as private, and leave it up to them if they want to do anything or not. Probably won't.

 

[Spymaster]

I would venture that the people who claim to have been done 2mph over in fact mean that they were 2mph over the 10% + 2mph, 37 in a 30 kind of thing.

I'm not so sure. On one of my SACs the bloke told everyone to hold up their hands when he mentioned the over-limit number they were done for. He then counted backwards from 15. Most people were, unsurprisingly, between 5 and 10 over but a few hands did go up at 3 and 4.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I'm not so sure. On one of my SACs the bloke told everyone to hold up their hands when he mentioned the over-limit number they were done for. He then counted backwards from 15. Most people were, unsurprisingly, between 5 and 10 over but a few hands did go up at 3 and 4.

We didn't do this at mine, but I did notice that the room represented a broad cross-section of society, including of course a number of complete morons who didn't seem to understand a single thing that was said to them...

 

[mojo pixy]

...Ditto main urban roads that have been recently slapped a 20 mph limit that is so laughably inappropriate, it is no surprise virtually 100% of all drivers ignore it. You will soon eventually, I suspect.

Hopefully not. I stick to 20mph limits and I'm always being beeped or overtaken by drivers who don't think I should bother.

Thing is, till you know why a 20mph zone was put on a stretch of road there's no way to judge how inappropriate it is.

Seems to me people just don't like driving slowly, even though it's proven again and again to be safer and result in better survival rates in the event of a crash. People still smoke fags and inject heroin too.

Cars should be made slower. There's no reason for a vehicle to be able to go 90mph when the highest legal speed on the roads is 70. They should also include fewer safety features, so that drivers feel more vulnerable and therefore drive safer.

 

[mauvais]

Thing is, till you know why a 20mph zone was put on a stretch of road there's no way to judge how inappropriate it is.

It's not for everyone but you could try advanced driving techniques such as 'looking with your eyes'.

 

[hash tag]

^^^ 20 MPH limits have to have repeater signs at regular intervals. Most of Lambeth, I believe is now 20. Whereas neighbouring Wandsworth, have 20 limits predominately where schools open on to the road and many side roads.

As a new driver it’s been a bit of a revelation that almost nobody seems to actually take any notice of the speed limit, whether it’s on 20mph roads or on motorways. I honestly thought speed limits were a real thing until now. People seem to know where the cameras are and just drive accordingly.

Oh bimble you really don't start learning to drive until after you have passed your test; you have much to learn.

I think that most cars speedo's show 2 or 3 miles per hour under what they are actually doing; they don't want their cars to be known as being owned by people that regularly speed. Also it helps
them with the fuel efficiency.

Most drivers don't see speeding as a crime; even after they have been caught several times. As per the quote from that DJ woman; why don't the police gone and catch proper criminals!

The bobbies were out in force today. They were out with hand held speed camera's on Putney Hill and did a double take on me, I guess they expected me to be speeding. They were also
out on Trinity Road checking the tax/insurance thing.

 

[2hats]

It's not for everyone but you could try advanced driving techniques such as 'looking with your eyes'.

Hard to see through garden/driveway walls, between parked cars, etc and spot small kids/family pets about to dart out into the road though (or the less able stumbling out), isn’t it? All residential areas should be 20mph (or 15mph) and respected as such, not just for reasons of safety but environmental noise as well.

I enjoy driving at 0-10mph below the limit (irrespective of the road/limit) whilst the pushy dickheads behind me fume. But roll on self-driving vehicles; I’ll willingly sacrifice my hobby.

 

[cupid_stunt]

20mph in residential areas should be standard.

 

[bimble]

^^^ 20 MPH limits have to have repeater signs at regular intervals. Most of Lambeth, I believe is now 20. Whereas neighbouring Wandsworth, have 20 limits predominately where schools open on to the road and many side roads.



Oh bimble you really don't start learning to drive until after you have passed your test; you have much to learn.

I think that most cars speedo's show 2 or 3 miles per hour under what they are actually doing; they don't want their cars to be known as being owned by people that regularly speed. Also it helps
them with the fuel efficiency.

Most drivers don't see speeding as a crime; even after they have been caught several times. As per the quote from that DJ woman; why don't the police gone and catch proper criminals!

The bobbies were out in force today. They were out with hand held speed camera's on Putney Hill and did a double take on me, I guess they expected me to be speeding. They were also
out on Trinity Road checking the tax/insurance thing.

I’ve been doing it too, already, when there’s a 20 limit on a long wide road with nothing going on, or just by mistake. But as a new driver I could lose my license if I get 6 points over these next two years, and that’s just two speedings isn’t it?
That’s what I don’t get why people are so consistently willing to take that risk.

 

[mauvais]

Hard to see through garden/driveway walls, between parked cars, etc and spot small kids/family pets about to dart out into the road though (or the less able stumbling out), isn’t it?

Sure. But you can see that these *potential* hazards exist, so you already know how to behave. The alternative is ultimately that you delegate your decision making to a crude number on a post, rather than taking responsibility for your behaviour at that moment in that environment.

 

[hash tag]

Incidentally, do you not remember whilst driving up the motorway. If you were doing anything less than about 75, you would be overtaken, by virtually everyone!

 

[mauvais]

I think that most cars speedo's show 2 or 3 miles per hour under what they are actually doing; they don't want their cars to be known as being owned by people that regularly speed. Also it helps
them with the fuel efficiency.

Much simpler than that. Under-reading is illegal, whereas over-reading is allowed up to whatever threshold is accepted. So if you make or integrate speedometers, you make them conservative to avoid being prosecuted or sued.

 

[bimble]

Incidentally, do you not remember whilst driving up the motorway. If you were doing anything less than about 75, you would be overtaken, by virtually everyone!

That’s the day this whole thing dawned on me, that first motorway trip. Even google maps time of journey estimates are not based on speed limit but probably average actual speeds, leaving me always way behind estimated arrival time.

 

[2hats]

Sure. But you can see that these *potential* hazards exist, so you already know how to behave. The alternative is ultimately that you delegate your decision making to a crude number on a post, rather than taking responsibility for your behaviour at that moment in that environment.

No. You respect the 20 mph limit anyway and you still drive with care and attention, ready to stop at little notice and lowering speed to 10-15mph (or lower) where conditions (additional hazards) dictate.

 

[mauvais]

No. You respect the 20 mph limit anyway and you still drive with care and attention, ready to stop at little notice and lowering speed to 10-15mph (or lower) where conditions (additional hazards) dictate.

Again, behaving as you describe, you already know what the appropriate speed is - what use is the sign to you?

Going back to the post I originally replied to, if you're a competent driver, you don't need to know the history, KSI stats etc for a road in order to decide how to drive it - you need to actively look for hazards and other information and react. We understandably have speed limits because people suck at doing this honestly, dynamically & continuously. But if you are doing it, which you easily can, you will have a very good idea whether the posted limit is appropriate.

Again, the alternative line of thinking is that the setter of the posted limit is beholden to some magical information that you cannot access, and this is not only total bollocks, but total bollocks that enables lazy, feckless driving.

'I drove into this pileup in the fog and killed a bunch of people, but I was doing the speed limit!'

 

[2hats]

Again, behaving as you describe, you already know what the appropriate speed is - what use is the sign to you?

The sign tells me that at or below this speed I don’t have to worry about getting an unwelcome gift in the post.

The sign is also there for other road users, which includes pedestrians, conveying an idea of what sort of conditions/behaviour to expect.

 

[mauvais]

The sign tells me that at or below this speed I don’t have to worry about getting an unwelcome gift in the post.

The sign is also there for other road users, which includes pedestrians, conveying an idea of what sort of conditions/behaviour to expect.

The (on average very low) chance of a NIP is why many of us comply, tbf, but it's not much to do with safety is it?

I don't think many non-driving road users take in much info about speed limits. I never did before I got a car. That information comes much more from the nature of the road environment, e.g. is there a pavement, lighting, armco etc

 

[marty21]

I rented a new-ish VW Polo last week and there was a 3 mph discrepancy between the traditional speedometer and the electronic display one. I don't buy for a second that speedometer technology is now infallible, certainly when talking about 2 mph differences.

FWIW I myself doubt most of these 'been done for going 2 mph over the limit' stories are true, but it would certainly be a cunt's trick to fine people for such a ludicrously small margin. It would also be counterproductive as far safety is concerned of course.

I rented a VW Golf at the weekend , my current car , also a Golf is 15 years old , I did enjoy driving a new car , bit disconcerted about the automatic handbrake though having had a roll-back hit another car ages after I parked on a hill last summer I am now a bit about parking on hills the automatic handbrake worked though

 

[T & P]

Thing is, till you know why a 20mph zone was put on a stretch of road there's no way to judge how inappropriate it is.

The problem is in many areas is no longer a question of a stretch of road being limited to to 20mph afeter careful consideration due to its characteristics.

Nowadays you get entire city boroughs covering many square miles and comprising thousands of roads being slapped blanket 20 mph limits without any concessions or consideration to the local circumstances. And whereas for many many roads concerned such limit is welcome, sensible and justified, for others (namely a lot of the main thoroughfares) such limit is idiotic and an overkill of gigantic proportions. And it only results on many drivers who would normally always respect the speed limit to break it on those particular roads where a 20mph limit is completely unfit for purpose.

Cars should be made slower. There's no reason for a vehicle to be able to go 90mph when the highest legal speed on the roads is 70. They should also include fewer safety features, so that drivers feel more vulnerable and therefore drive safer.

That is probably the single most reckless suggestion I have ever heard about road safety

 

[mauvais]

It's just a version of 'cars should have a spike on the steering wheel to make people drive carefully', forgetting amongst many things that for a long time (prior to the 1970s if not later), they effectively did have that, and noone gave a shit.

 

[marty21]

As a new driver it’s been a bit of a revelation that almost nobody seems to actually take any notice of the speed limit, whether it’s on 20mph roads or on motorways. I honestly thought speed limits were a real thing until now. People seem to know where the cameras are and just drive accordingly.

I did get done in a 20mph zone last year They introduced a 20 zone on part of the Lea Bridge Road from the Clapton Roundabout . It's a wide , busy A road, so I'm still a bit wtf about it. I don't mind the 20 on my residential street . The cameras clearly work

 

[2hats]

The (on average very low) chance of a NIP is why many of us comply, tbf, but it's not much to do with safety is it?

Task offloading: insomuch as ignoring speed cameras, safety vehicles, police to a degree, frees me up to concentrate more on the immediate dynamic environment approaching the region of maximal optical flow/vehicle proximity.

I don't think many non-driving road users take in much info about speed limits. I never did before I got a car. That information comes much more from the nature of the road environment, e.g. is there a pavement, lighting, armco etc

I take in the entire environment, including the signage, when out for a stroll.

And it only results on many drivers who would normally always respect the speed limit to break it on those particular roads where a 20mph limit is completely unfit for purpose.

The impatient shouldn’t be driving on public roads.

 

[T & P]

I rented a VW Golf at the weekend , my current car , also a Golf is 15 years old , I did enjoy driving a new car , bit disconcerted about the automatic handbrake though having had a roll-back hit another car ages after I parked on a hill last summer I am now a bit about parking on hills the automatic handbrake worked though

The automatic handbrake feature (I.e. to stop the car from rolling backwards) will be useful to many on manual cars. I myself haven't had any concerns with hilly starts since I gained some experience as a driver, but as learner/ new driver I was of course rather weary of starts on steep hills, in particular if there were cars behind me.

The one thing I really don't like is the electric button handbrake rather than the traditional handle. I was glad the Polo I rented had the traditional set up. The button pisses me off no end.