Donald Trump - MAGAtwat news and discussion

[Kris Silver]

Agreed. And IQ is a dodgy concept anyway, wrapped up in eugenics and all that shit. But that aside, we do need to watch our language. For ableist reasons and more.

Well, if everyone had equal access to the same high quality information. But we don’t. We know that.

I even tried experiments setting up new social media accounts. Not following anything political or new and current affairs. I made a YouTube account, followed the Beatles and Time Team and seemingly neutral stuff like that, and got all these recommendations for Jordan Peterson and that kind of shite. I wrote about it on here. It was appalling.

Imagine you’re not a politico nerd like us, and you get force fed that stuff?

Imagine all you see is US based news?

Imagine all you hear on social media, on Fox, from your friends, etc is how bad Kamala is, how she should be locked up. The opposite of what we know is what they know.

The situation is bad. It’s frustrating, depressing and alarming that Trump has been voted in again. But I’m afraid it’s just lazy to put it down to “stupidity”, unless all you mean by that is “oh ffs!”. If one really means lack of intelligence, then that doesn’t actually answer anything. It opens more questions.

You highlight a huge part of this. The climate of it all. If there is much more right leaning news and media. Social media. Lobbying. PR. Marketing. Adverts. Power on that side given wealthy individuals and corporates often leaning low tax low general public interests.

It's no surprise that people are more likely to slip down those tendencies, perspectives, voting paths. Than others. From a range of intelligence levels.

I don't consider myself anything more than average intelligence and I was fooled by lots of crap before the last 10 years where I've been forced to really dial in and identify what agendas are pushed. Resist blaming one another, instead the powerful, who are often times winning people over with alluring propaganda.

Most wouldn't accept there's been a shift right, what we think of as normal politics or capitalism has shifted, un favourably to the general public, but favourably to be enriching and empowering the few at the expense of the many.

My optimism in that climate only goes as far as, maybe 20% can feasibly be reasoned with to see validities there and re assess. I can't see our news and political spaces, changing much, to enable much more of a break through than that. Which, is enough sometimes to keep the right out, but then they end up disillusioned with all they know of, as the 'left'.

 

[HeAthen]

Even if it was 76 million, my point would still stand.

Yeah, and I totally agree with you (and your longer post detailing things). Many people aren't politically engaged and are ignorant of wider goings on and politicians and the media play on this, indeed they positively encourage it. That ignorance is then used to other people, whether that's race, sex, gender, skin colour, religion etc etc. If you're not politically, or indeed socially engaged then it''s easy to be influenced by the shit you're being fed which results in the shitshow the world is in at the moment.

 

[danny la rouge]

Yeah, and I totally agree with you (and your longer post detailing things). Many people aren't politically engaged and are ignorant of wider goings on and politicians and the media play on this, indeed they positively encourage it. That ignorance is then used to other people, whether that's race, sex, gender, skin colour, religion etc etc. If you're not politically, or indeed socially engaged then it''s easy to be influenced by the shit you're being fed which results in the shitshow the world is in at the moment.

Yup. I’ve studied the rise of fascism in Germany. And I’m sorry to have to report that people are just people. People in situations and circumstances. There wasn’t a DNA mutation in the 20s in Germany and Italy. Germans are not uniquely prone to nastiness or stupidity. It didn’t spread as an airborne virus. It didn’t get passed on to those living in Vichy France because of poor hygiene and handwashing.

What happened wasn't other people. It was people. People in circumstances.

 

[Serge Forward]

Someone with skills I don't have needs to do a version of the scene in America werewolf in London where the 2 Americans walk into the pub. But with AV superimposed over the heads of the Americans and Urban75 on the regulars.

Almost there with post 10,784

 

[klang]

Are they stupid if they support Farage, but clever if they support Green?

Both as thick as each other.

 

[smokedout]

I think people should move away from characterising all Trump voters as uneducated idiots who are disengaged from politics and voted solely on the culture war. Even amongst that group many are very politically engaged, especially the more religious elements. You might consider it thick to believe in a literal interpretation of the bible as a moral guide but clearly there are and always have been some very intelligent people who are also very religious. And this group used to break left in US politics. Have they just become stupid or is something else going on?

But also many Trump voters will have been upper middle class and tempted by tax cuts which were likely to favour them. Capitalists and aspiring capatalists were no doubt attracted to the thought of less corporation tax. Others, in areas where manufacturing has been devastasted by cheap imports, might think tariffs are a good idea. Low income workers might have been attracted by the pledge to exempt tips, overtime and social security payments from taxation. None of these positions are stupid. Self interested perhaps. A gamble maybe in the case of tariffs. But not stupid.

Unless the left can come up with something that genuinely appeals to voters who are struggling economically and feel abandoned, instead of pointing and sneering and losing, then the rightward drift will continue.

 

[Sweet FA]

Speaking for myself I've only remarked where it's been pretty personal and bullying a certain poster or two, as I'd often do with anyone.

Or, those that have made sweeping generalisations of av posters as a group of 'new' posters all in total agreement and due the same sweeping criticisms.

I think most people in any format would rightly kick back on those things. I do get where you're coming from though. The trouble is, you are whining about people whining. Your follow on post, you are grading new posters. How about realise that's not a pleasant welcoming thing to hear when some people happen to enter the same pub.

Now, on Trump and this whole stupid voter, thing. How do we define stupid? Lots of people in the UK+US are below 80 IQ. Are they stupid if they support Farage, but clever if they support Green?

We probably do need to watch language on it as common sense and critical thinking can be there for low IQ people. There is a solid case frankly, for voicing an opinion it's foolish to fool for Farage and Trump. Because, there is so many examples of blatant lies, misinformation and objectively being incorrect in an array of areas. That's just my take. But, people are free to express on the whole matter, however they so wish.

Thanks for the reply. I agree with most of what you say.

(I didn't mean to grade btw tho I see why it comes over that way. Ethel made me laugh with their reply (and has done on loads of other threads tbf), it was a response to that really).

 

[breadandcircuse]

Fucksake stop whining

A few (mainly one) urb went over the top early doors. That was addressed, explained, dealt with, whatever: pages and pages ago. Fucking boohoo. It's done.

A few of the recent influx talked and continue to talk absolute shite, (on this thread, dunno about elsewhere), get picked up on it and now won't stf about being bullied. Stop being self-pitying wankers and argue your point or fuck off and post cats.

Other new posters then jump in to defend their mates and bang, it's us and them. It's not about how recent you are (for most). For me, it's the crass shite talked on this thread by 2 maybe 3 posters who happen to be new.

I think it's excellent that we've got new people - they absolutely belong here and fit in and whatever. So at what point can we say 'you're posting bollocks' and not get accused of bullying some poor defenceless n00b?

So this absolute shite, as you call it, is blamed on me, for referencing a fucking avatar by a member, and it wasn't even their avatar? That's ridiculous, and targeted. It's not about a legitimate issue, just some wanker in the early hours of the morning, looking for something to pick on.

I'm sick to death of the tossers on here trying to create a fucking argument, many times over pathetic points. It's not big or clever, however much they try to wrap their bullshit up, with tirades like this, that we, (we are all lumped together from AV) are all coming on here and posting shite, in your view, but mainly me who is copping it all. Funny how I see posts from established members on here which could be picked up on, if there was an equal playing field, but nothing is said. Hypocrites, looking to have a go at the outsiders.

Your rant here is trying to do a job of deflecting and denying what some of us are experiencing. It's not working.

Oh, and as for the latest twat who instigated the primate blowup, I notice they are opining on being cast out, an outsider, on another thread. Pot, kettle?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

So this absolute shite, as you call it, is blamed on me, for referencing a fucking avatar by a member, and it wasn't even their avatar? That's ridiculous, and targeted. It's not about a legitimate issue, just some wanker in the early hours of the morning, looking for something to pick on.

I'm sick to death of the tossers on here trying to create a fucking argument, many times over pathetic points. It's not big or clever, however much they try to wrap their bullshit up, with tirades like this, that we, (we are all lumped together from AV) are all coming on here and posting shite, in your view, but mainly me who is copping it all. Funny how I see posts from established members on here which could be picked up on, if there was an equal playing field, but nothing is said. Hypocrites, looking to have a go at the outsiders.

Your rant here is trying to do a job of deflecting and denying what some of us are experiencing. It's not working.

Oh, and as for the latest twat who instigated the primate blowup, I notice they are opining on being cast out, an outsider, on another thread. Pot, kettle?

I don't really want to get involved in this noobies vs oldies spat. It's really very silly on all sides. But just as the noobs are not a monolith, neither are the oldsters. There are plenty of long-time posters on here who detest each other's manner of posting.

fwiw.

As you were...

 

[HeAthen]

I don't really want to get involved in this noobies vs oldies spat. It's really very silly on all sides. But just as the noobs are not a monolith, neither are the oldsters. There are plenty of long-time posters on here who detest each other's manner of posting.

fwiw.

As you were...

Absolutely, and I think that's been acknowledged on quite a few occasions.

 

[Rompipalle]

I don't really want to get involved in this noobies vs oldies spat. It's really very silly on all sides. But just as the noobs are not a monolith, neither are the oldsters. There are plenty of long-time posters on here who detest each other's manner of posting.

fwiw.

As you were...

Maybe then the most appropriate course of action is to simply ignore (either passively or actively) the contributions from anyone who pisses one off. Perhaps then the discussions could remain on track and not be derailed by petty squabbling.

 

[danny la rouge]

Unless the left can come up with something that genuinely appeals to voters who are struggling economically and feel abandoned, instead of pointing and sneering and losing, then the rightward drift will continue.

This. Very, very much this.

 

[breadandcircuse]

I don't really want to get involved in this noobies vs oldies spat. It's really very silly on all sides. But just as the noobs are not a monolith, neither are the oldsters. There are plenty of long-time posters on here who detest each other's manner of posting.

fwiw.

As you were...

Yes, I should have said certain tossers. It's not everyone, but there is a distinct little group of them.

 

[andysays]

Maybe then the most appropriate course of action is to simply ignore (either passively or actively) the contributions from anyone who pisses one off. Perhaps then the discussions could remain on track and not be derailed by petty squabbling.

You really do still have a lot to learn about how things work here

 

[HeAthen]

This. Very, very much this.

And it needs to be something concrete that speaks to the situation people live in rather than debating the finder points of Cole and Postgate's "The Common People" which whilst being an extremely interesting book doesn't doesn't do a huge amount for someone struggling on minimum wage or below (only reason I mention that book specifically is that it was all a left wing group Worker's Liberty wanted to talk about when trying to engage possible voters back in the 2010 GE).

 

[Rompipalle]

You really do still have a lot to learn about how things work here

Why do you say that?

 

[danny la rouge]

You really do still have a lot to learn about how things work here

I mean, I did try a search for the last thread was that remained on track and wasn’t derailed by petty squabbling, but I think it must have been deleted during the Great Cull.

 

[andysays]

Why do you say that?

Because the idea that posters would ignore the contributions from anyone who pisses one off so that the discussions could remain on track and not be derailed by petty squabbling is entirely alien to the general Urban practice that I've witnessed for the past ten years.

 

[andysays]

I mean, I did try a search for the last thread was that remained on track and wasn’t derailed by petty squabbling, but I think it must have been deleted during the Great Cull.

No you didn't, and no it wasn't

 

[two sheds]

Why do you say that?

it's a long-running urban joke*


* with some measure of accuracy

 

[Rompipalle]

Because the idea that posters would ignore the contributions from anyone who pisses one off so that the discussions could remain on track and not be derailed by petty squabbling is entirely alien to the general Urban practice that I've witnessed for the past ten years.

Well, in that case there's absolutely no point in anybody moaning about it and pointing the finger at anyone else, is there?

 

[danny la rouge]

No you didn't, and no it wasn't

You’re one of the Top 50 All Time Cranberry Trolls and I’m putting you on ignore.

I’ve even gone off Andy Pandy now.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Because the idea that posters would ignore the contributions from anyone who pisses one off so that the discussions could remain on track and not be derailed by petty squabbling is entirely alien to the general Urban practice that I've witnessed been engaged in for the past ten years.

cfy

Sorry, open goal.

 

[andysays]

Well, in that case there's absolutely no point in anybody moaning about it and pointing the finger at anyone else, is there?


View attachment 455870

As if that will stop anyone

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Well, in that case there's absolutely no point in anybody moaning about it and pointing the finger at anyone else, is there?


View attachment 455870

We moan.

And we moan about the moaning.

And we moan about the moaning about the moaning.

And we moan about the moaning about the moaning about the moaning.

And then we go to bed.

 

[Skinny Ethel]

Stop whinging.

 

[danny la rouge]

And start again in the moaning.

 

[andysays]

We moan.

And we moan about the moaning.

And we moan about the moaning about the moaning.

And we moan about the moaning about the moaning about the moaning.

And then we go to bed.

And then get up the next day and start the moaning all over again

 

[emanymton]

And then get up the next day and start the moaning all over again

I'm quite capable of moaning in my sleep.

 

[Sue]

Maybe then the most appropriate course of action is to simply ignore (either passively or actively) the contributions from anyone who pisses one off. Perhaps then the discussions could remain on track and not be derailed by petty squabbling.

Thing is, when people post on the politics boards, they can expect to be asked to back up any assertions they make, whether they've been on Urban for a long time or have arrived more recently. More rigour is expected on the politics boards than elsewhere. (In the same way that people are expected to be kinder on the health, relationships, sexuality one aka nobbing and sobbing due to the subject matter.)

Otherwise there's so much noise that it's difficult to even find the discussion, never mind learn things from it. Take a look at some old threads and you'll see that's always been the convention (and that things used to be way less polite and a lot more heated than they are now... )

I guess this approach isn't always clear when people haven't been here so long and personally I think changing it would be a backwards step.