Donald Trump - MAGAtwat news and discussion

[emanymton]

But we're dealing in facts here. They refuse to believe them, and prefer to lie constantly, and live in their bubble of unreality.

What's the comment about Brexit got to do with Trump's cult being stupid? I voted Remain, so what's your point?

But you don't deal with facts.

You think that there will be no more elections in America and Trump openly said that.
You think the election result is suspicious.

But these things aren't true

I'm sorry but you are the left version of a Trump supporter.

 

[emanymton]

Have you considered addressing the point I was making, or is it all going to be head of a pin stuff until I get bored?

Maybe we should just say everyone who votes is a idiot.

 

[Monte]

Have you considered addressing the point I was making, or is it all going to be head of a pin stuff until I get bored?

I did that when I suggested your point wasn't really valid or based on evidence.
It was an emotional appeal based on an assumption.

However, since you have now resorted to ad hominin I shall accept your surrender and withdraw before you get bored.

 

[kabbes]

I did that when I suggested your point wasn't really valid or based on evidence.
It was an emotional appeal based on an assumption.

However, since you have now resorted to ad hominin I shall accept your surrender and withdraw before you get bored.

He’s pointing out the logical inconsistency inherent to saying that a vote indicates some reified characteristic of “stupidity”. It’s a thought experiment.

 

[kabbes]

Mind you, if you voted for Starmer’s Labour Party then I would actually agree that you really are a fucking idiot. But that’s by the by.

 

[danny la rouge]

I did that when I suggested your point wasn't really valid or based on evidence.
It was an emotional appeal based on an assumption.

It was a logical argument:

You say that people voted Trump due to stupidity. Therefore if someone votes Trump one time but not another they were stupid for the duration of their Trump vote only.

That does, surely, require further explanation of what a stupid person is. That seems pretty straight forward to me.

However, since you have now resorted to ad hominin I shall accept your surrender and withdraw before you get bored.

Is it not ironic to accuse me of that when in fact you’re literally ad homing millions of voters?

 

[breadandcircuse]

But you don't deal with facts.

You think that there will be no more elections in America and Trump openly said that.
You think the election result is suspicious.

But these things aren't true

I'm sorry but you are the left version of a Trump supporter.

I do deal with facts. He did say about not voting again. I'm not making that up.

I have said that I think the result is suspicious, and I am not a conspiracy nut, but someone who was watching closely. When he has more people who loathe him than support him, and he was looking decidedly like he knew he'd lost the day before, with speculation that he had received bad polling news, it just didn't make sense that he supposedly won all parts of the government, in a supposed landslide. Now we know it wasn't that, but very close. With bomb scares in certain Dem areas, and many people having their votes removed etc, with no explanation, I don't believe that he won fairly. Add in those computer experts who have urged an inquiry too, as things don't add up, then I will retain my view that something is off until proven otherwise. When the madman has shown himself to be just that over the last four years, why would those not in his cult, suddenly vote for him?

 

[kabbes]

Brilliant.

I deal in facts! But here’s a load of unevidenced suspicions that I have.

 

[Orang Utan]

Just scroll through and ignore it. It’s fine.

 

[JimW]

The bit about no more elections is a really tendentious interpretation of a bit of throwaway rhetoric. It really is self-defeating to fight what's not there when what is is grim enough.

 

[HeAthen]

Thiel will have him killed soon to get Vance in, the deliberately failed attempts on the campaign trail were just part of the scene-setting.

Thoughts and Prayers.....

 

[Wilf]

This thread is almost, but not quite, tempting me to go back and look at what is wrong with public choice theory, Anthony Downs etc. Almost.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The bit about no more elections is a really tendentious interpretation of a bit of throwaway rhetoric. It really is self-defeating to fight what's not there when what is is grim enenough.yes

Yes I agree. Fwiw I suspect all he was intending to convey was that people would never vote again for him and he's such a narcissist that he genuinely doesn't care how or indeed whether people vote after that.

 

[breadandcircuse]

Brilliant.

I deal in facts! But here’s a load of unevidenced suspicions that I have.

Oh do fuck off. I said I have suspicions, which is what they are. The facts were the fact that he fucking said about no more elections. Those sneering at that can do one too when trying to laugh it off. It's his modus operandi. "I was only joking" When it happens we will no doubt hear his rendition of The Snake again. "You knew what I was when you let me in".

 

[Dystopiary]

Looking at how polarised the US is across certain states, if voting Trump is down to voters' stupidity, some states must be collectively much more stupid that others. Why is that?

 

[Dystopiary]

Need a thread about liberalism.

 

[emanymton]

The bit about no more elections is a really tendentious interpretation of a bit of throwaway rhetoric. It really is self-defeating to fight what's not there when what is is grim enough.

Indeed. And if you think there will be no more elections you miss the stuff they will actually do to skew elections in their favour. And if you do see those things and talk about them no one will take you seriously as you have lost credibility by going on about the end of elections.

 

[Rompipalle]

Remember Boris?

Trump lies about all sorts of things, and in the last election he was often fact checked, it didn't make much difference because he already made loads of statements since that one.

In UK, if you are a company, you have to tell the truth in your advertising. This requirement is not extended to political parties. They have no requirement to tell the truth. How many millions paid to EU every week on the Tory battlebus?

No, Trump was doing three battleground rallies per day when Harris was just doing one. It was on the news, Harris is holding a rally in xyz, Trump is holding rallies in ABC, XYZ and GHR .. in the same time period.

He is a politician, and as the election result shows, not to be underestimated.

I despise liars - which is why I consider Trump and Johnson as two cheeks of the same arse. What I cannot understand is why so many people know that these sorts of individuals are liars and yet they still endorse them. It's as if they wish to invite disappointment and misery and then wonder why they end up miserable and disappointed..

Trump telling lies three times a day is only indicative of the fact that he thinks quantity is preferable to quality.

He's a "politician" in name only. He understands little to nothing about people or the reality of their lives. Politics is only another publicity mechanism to him. He has never had the remotest desire to serve the people of the US and that continues to be the case.

 

[weltweit]

I despise liars - which is why I consider Trump and Johnson as two cheeks of the same arse. What I cannot understand is why so many people know that these sorts of individuals are liars and yet they still endorse them. It's as if they wish to invite disappointment and misery and then wonder why they end up miserable and disappointed..

I think it is all about the opponents. TBF without thinking about it I can't even remember who Johnson stood against but the calculation voters made was that he was the better option.

..
He's a "politician" in name only. He understands little to nothing about people or the reality of their lives. Politics is only another publicity mechanism to him. He has never had the remotest desire to serve the people of the US and that continues to be the case.

That is your prejudice showing. Trump has said he will do - immigration and economy and stop wars, that is about it. As it happens, the electorate seems to have thought his arguments on those priorities were more convincing than Harris's arguments.

 

[Wilf]

I despise liars - which is why I consider Trump and Johnson as two cheeks of the same arse. What I cannot understand is why so many people know that these sorts of individuals are liars and yet they still endorse them. It's as if they wish to invite disappointment and misery and then wonder why they end up miserable and disappointed..

But why that is the case could be the point to have an interesting discussion rather than taking it to 'ergo Trump voters are stupid'.

And just to be clear, that's not aimed at you, just using your post to make the point.

 

[hitmouse]

Well, this has certainly convinced me not to vote for Trump. I might even swallow my pride and vote for Harris to be my MP next time round.

 

[Smangus]

This thread has gone all a bit stream of consciousness, reminds me of old school Urban in some respects. Not the best bits of it either.

 

[Rompipalle]

I think it is all about the opponents. TBF without thinking about it I can't even remember who Johnson stood against but the calculation voters made was that he was the better option.

That is your prejudice showing. Trump has said he will do - immigration and economy and stop wars, that is about it. As it happens, the electorate seems to have thought his arguments on those priorities were more convincing than Harris's arguments.

It's not prejudice. I've seen enough of Trump in action to know that he's a pathological liar and he will not deliver on any of that stuff.

He said all that crap just to try to stay out of jail.

 

[magneze]

A lot of people have basically been voting "not this" for quite a while.

 

[Dystopiary]

Demon Copperhead is good on this from what I remember, but I think you're slightly understating it - it's not just that they're told that they can't tell their favourite jokes, it's that when they turn on the tv they get to watch programmes made by people who live in California and New York which tell them that they are everyone else's favourite joke.

There it is. There's usually a link between seeing people as collectively stupid, and class perceptions and biases. Which the likes of Trump exploit, obvs.

 

[danny la rouge]

It's not prejudice. I've seen enough of Trump in action to know that he's a pathological liar and he will not deliver on any of that stuff.

He said all that crap just to try to stay out of jail.

This is going in circles. Yes, Trump is a liar, a rapist, a racist, a fascist, a bizarre clownish buffoon. We know. We agree. Saying that over and over isn’t progressing us any further.

(And actually, as an aside, there’s a lot of things he said he’s going to do that I hope he was a lying about. Or doesn’t get round to).

It’s the next step in your argument that I’m not sure is helpful. The one that says therefore those who voted for him are stupid.

OK, let’s assume you’re right. They are stupid. That’s it: they’re just stupid.

What do you want from us? That we agree they’re stupid? Then what? What is achieved?

I mean, it’s alarming having all those stupid people. And they’re a majority, or at least they’re able to win an election. If our analysis is that stupidity is winning, how do we respond?

That’s one thing to consider. Can we start with that?

 

[smokedout]

I didn’t, though. I said:

Were people who voted Biden last time but Trump this time stupid this year but clever four years ago? If they vote Democrat next time (assuming there is a next time) will they be clever again? If so, what does “stupid” mean beyond “have disappointed me”?

I made no estimation of numbers. It did not play any part in my argument.

The maths doesn't work anyway. If we assume stupid to mean below average intelligence, then that means a tiny fraction below 50% of the population. Trump won 50% of the popular vote. Given we've been told that the people who didn't vote are also stupid then it's impossible for stupid people to make up all of that 50% and the people who didn't vote. There aren't enough stupid people even on the most generous measure of stupidness. This would also mean the clever people must have voted for RFK.

 

[danny la rouge]

The maths doesn't work anyway. If we assume stupid to mean below average intelligence, then that means a tiny fraction below 50% of the population. Trump won 50% of the popular vote. Given we've been told that the people who didn't vote are also stupid then it's impossible for stupid people to make up all of that 50% and the people who didn't vote. There aren't enough stupid people even on the most generous measure of stupidness. This would also mean the clever people must have voted for RFK.

Indeed. I wanted to get at how we were defining stupid for these purposes.

 

[Ax^]

Well, what ever you think of Trump, he won the election fair and square, and by more of a margin than the polls seemed to have suggested.

So we have Trump for 4 more years whatever that means? tarrifs, immigration, the wall, make America great again. Trump has said he could stop the wars in Ukraine and Gaza in weeks, let's see him do it then?

fair and square what the fucks that got to do with an American election.. prick never stopped fucking crying like a little bitch when he was spanked by Biden..

 

[two sheds]

The maths doesn't work anyway. If we assume stupid to mean below average intelligence, then that means a tiny fraction below 50% of the population. Trump won 50% of the popular vote. Given we've been told that the people who didn't vote are also stupid then it's impossible for stupid people to make up all of that 50% and the people who didn't vote. There aren't enough stupid people even on the most generous measure of stupidness. This would also mean the clever people must have voted for RFK.

unless the rest of the world has an IQ of 150 and the US is bringing the average down