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Do you think population growth is a good thing?

Moreover, the high-yielding monocultured strains of staple crops that make up an increasing share of global diets are uniquely vulnerable to microbial epidemics that may appear with no warning. Finally it is unlikely that renewables will be able to supply the energy needed for nitrogen fixing, and fusion looks like a distant dream. These innovations haven't solved the long run sustainability problem - merely bought us time at the expense of a certain amount of uncertainty.

You have identified some problems with farming practices. Well done.

They are all solvable. And no one has to be killed or sterilised or even imprisoned or fined for those solutions to work.

Your comment about nitrogen fixing requiring lots of energy shows that you haven't even bothered investigated sustainable farming practices. Just straight for the population control. That reveals an awful lot about your character.
 
I believe we need to work less so as a society and wealth accumulated used for the benefit of all, we would demand less energy and need to be more self sufficient, the problem with this is it would lead to bigger families as the focus would move to family rather than work goals, which is partly the reason for slow growth in developed countries.

The christian work ethic is to blame for increased consumption, in the middle ages about a quarter of the year was spent having festivals
I agree with this to an extent. We should, and could, all work less if wealth were distributed differently. It's also to do with not just how much but what work is done. If we worked as hard at producing sustainable energy, for instance, as we do at producing weaponry, we'd be consuming fewer resources and using those resources we do consume more efficiently. We may in fact need to work quite hard to make the Earth a good for a population of 9 billion humans to live without destroying the environment. It will need a change in mindset. In many ways we've come a lot closer to Huxley's vision of a society in which to consume is virtuous in the past few decades.
 
Moreover, the high-yielding monocultured strains of staple crops that make up an increasing share of global diets are uniquely vulnerable to microbial epidemics that may appear with no warning. .

More like a fait accompli, like a genetically engineered virus that lowers peoples' fertility without harming them in any other way.
You're not really a scientist are you? You're all over the place with your arguments.
 
because engineering viruses that lower fertility is a good thing. No way would they mutate and render the human race incapable of reproduction. FFS.
 
As right-winger do you not think that population growth is a product of material inequality and that eradicating inequality is far better method of slowing population growth than an air/water borne virus that induces sterilisation - as per your previous recommendations.

Both would be good, to be fair.

I would note, however, that the causation also runs extremely strongly the other way. Researchers find educational attainment is lower in children from large families, and it's not a mystery that inequality persists if people who are largely affluent and have less kids divide up an inheritance less ways than those who are poor and have lots of kids.

Where is the roadmap to this equality, anyway? The Left do not seem interested in providing one.
 
This is a man who has a degree in economics.

Scarily ignorant of the way economics works, and a sorry indictment of economics courses that he was given a pass.

Is it too much to ask, that like, people actually read the OP properly and comprehend what phrases like 'to a first approximation' actually mean?
 
Researchers find educational attainment is lower in children from large families.
Link? I suspect this research may be flawed, and I'd like to see how other economic factors were separated out to show that there is a causation rather than merely a correlation – ie those with more money tend to have smaller families and the cause of higher educational attainment is in fact money.
 
You have identified some problems with farming practices. Well done.

They are all solvable. And no one has to be killed or sterilised or even imprisoned or fined for those solutions to work.

Your comment about nitrogen fixing requiring lots of energy shows that you haven't even bothered investigated sustainable farming practices. Just straight for the population control. That reveals an awful lot about your character.

But the solutions aren't here yet, are they?

Anyway, your post is largely a case of you revealing your ignorance about sustainable farming than my character. Show me high yield cropping that is sustainable. With the amount of people we have to feed, we cannot afford the luxury of e.g. letting a field go fallow for 10 years.
 
You're not really a scientist are you? You're all over the place with your arguments.

No - they are two different issues. Susceptibility to a virus in human populations will vary because of the hetoregeneity of the human race. Not everyone who gets Chlamydia becomes infertile, for instance.

If, on the other hand, you are planting millions of acres of basically cloned crops, the right mutation of virus would spread through them like wildfire and could wipe out an entire harvest.
 
But the solutions aren't here yet, are they?

Anyway, your post is largely a case of you revealing your ignorance about sustainable farming than my character. Show me high yield cropping that is sustainable. With the amount of people we have to feed, we cannot afford the luxury of e.g. letting a field go fallow for 10 years.

The good lord gave us an entire family of plants that are both fantastic nitrogen-fixers and provide some of the most nutritious food available. They can be grown alone or in rotation with other crops:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legumes
There are also other plants that work in a similar way and can be grown in various combinations with food crops.

ignorance.jpg


:cool:
 
No - they are two different issues. Susceptibility to a virus in human populations will vary because of the hetoregeneity of the human race. Not everyone who gets Chlamydia becomes infertile, for instance.

If, on the other hand, you are planting millions of acres of basically cloned crops, the right mutation of virus would spread through them like wildfire and could wipe out an entire harvest.
You have missed the issue I was pointing out. You are right about the dangers to crops with no genetic diversity. You are wrong to think that anybody could predict how a 'genetically engineered' virus could mutate once released into the environment. It's simply an extraordinarily dumb thing to do.
 
You understand nothing of virology.

You understand nothing of sustainable farming.

You understand precious fucking little of economics given it is supposed to be your field.


Your arguments are pathetic.
 
.

In light of this uncertainty, and the increasing lifespan of most individuals (meaning the death rate does not act as a check on the birth rate), is it not time for governments to adopt strategies to control population growth now, rather than witness the consequences of having exceeded the earth's carrying capacity? I think people possibly dying of starvation/war from resource shortages is a much greater evil than disincentivising people from having kids, illiberal though it may be.

The world is not overpopulated. Its just parts of it that are.
Africa is not overpopulated but some cities are overcrowded.

The problem is not the amount of people but where they live.
If people were spread out evenly across the world probably nobody would talk about overpopulation ever again!

Inequality makes the problem worse, people flow to where they think prospects are best. This leads to overcrowding and overdevelopment in some cities like London. And it also leads to poorer countries losing the skilled workers they most need.
 
When I said stable GDP is desirable, I meant real GDP with inflation taken into account.

Likewise a stable population or to my way of thinking a slightly declining population is also desirable.

Yes people are worried about the bulge, who will pay their pensions, well pensions were never intended to work like that, the government got greedy and expected they could get away with spending NI payments rather than saving them for pensions.

In the short term with the baby boomers getting old there will be problems but longer term I still maintain a declining population would be desirable.
 
Yes people are worried about the bulge, who will pay their pensions, well pensions were never intended to work like that, the government got greedy and expected they could get away with spending NI payments rather than saving them for pensions.
This is a misunderstanding of economics, I'm afraid. Your pension isn't paid for by the money you've saved, but by the work others do from the moment you become a pensioner. The money you saved is simply a means of getting a promise – I'll work now for someone else and then someone else can work for me when I retire. If there's noone there to do the work, your savings become worthless.
 
This is a misunderstanding of economics, I'm afraid. Your pension isn't paid for by the money you've saved, but by the work others do from the moment you become a pensioner. The money you saved is simply a means of getting a promise – I'll work now for someone else and then someone else can work for me when I retire. If there's noone there to do the work, your savings become worthless.

Yes, I understand that.

But it should not be called a pension because it isn't.

NI is just Tax, nothing more nothing less.
 
You understand nothing of virology.

You understand nothing of sustainable farming.

You understand precious fucking little of economics given it is supposed to be your field.


Your arguments are pathetic.

Indeed, he's speaking from within a great dark cloud of ignorance from which he has no wish to escape and thinks he's qualified to pontificate on the solutions to the world's more intractable problems. At least it's only the internet :D

wolveryeti, I don't think you really understand science, but here's some:
http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=1091304
I do understand science so I know that one study is not conclusive. I am also pretty fucking sure that right wing chat shows or wherever the fuck you get your information are not conclusive either.
 
NI is just Tax, nothing more nothing less.
Yes. It is. It's a ridiculous pretence which just causes misery to the few who are caught out not 'contributing' enough for whatever reason (and still penalises, for instance, women who take time out from work to bring up a family). It's an iniquitous system – and for that very reason, the state pension isn't where it is because of the level of NI. It's where it is because of government choice. Out of everywhere in Europe, the UK's pensioners as a whole see a greater drop in their earnings when they retire than everywhere except Cyprus, Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania. It's a disgrace and nowt to do with demographics.
 
OK, another angle on the same issue.

I maintain we could do with less people in the UK.

But:

What is the ideal population of the UK?
 
It's an absurd notion.

Its not at all absurd.

Take a small town, 10,000 residents.

If you want to grow that you will need more houses, more schools, more hospitals, more jobs etc etc ....

But perhaps the town is doing quite well with 10,000 residents. Perhaps that might be the optimum?
 
Its not at all absurd.

Take a small town, 10,000 residents.

If you want to grow that you will need more houses, more schools, more hospitals, more jobs etc etc ....

But perhaps the town is doing quite well with 10,000 residents. Perhaps that might be the optimum?
The villagers in the stone age may have considered they were doing 'quite well' too. And given how much forest has been cut down since then in the UK to make room for us, they might have had a point.

Sorry, BA's right, it is an absurd notion.
 
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