Do you read Private Eye?

[kabbes]

It's worth remembering that I was just out of the dwyer-pwning thread and was still on a high. It's lucky I could even read the clues.

 

[Endeavour]

Scallywag? Wasn't that brought down by John Major suing over the allegations of an affair with the fragrant Edwina Currie (allegations that turned out to be true)?

The Guardian
12 December 1999

As founding editor of the now-defunct Scallywag magazine, which got libelled out of existence with actions against innocent retailers, and which published many allegations which now seem to be finding the light of day (including Archer), am I now, please, allowed a little gloat?

I grew up on Private Eye, which was a compulsive, impulsive, part of my youth during the whole rebellious thing they now call the 60s. This public school rag epitomised the entire rebellion with a sort of daring behind-the-bike sheds bravura.

While PE is still highly readable, it is not what it what it was, because of the influence of lawyers. When it decided to go "commercial," shortly before Richard Ingrams left, it was on the insistence of WH Smith and John Menzies that every issue must be read by their own libel lawyers - who never let anything through which could ever be slightly contentious. So, in effect, Private Eye became "tame".

I started Scallywag magazine in Dorset when PE was going through a positive decline. It was a one man band and just about paid its way. It was a lot of fun and it was no holds barred. I took on the local estate agent mafia; the local brewery (over closing country pubs); the local councils on a quite terrible scandal over methane gas deposits in their main country park. It subsequently resulted in mass resignations from county hall.

I was blackballed from every major venue in town, including the Royal Yacht Club, and twice evaded being murdered by an assassin who later confessed to me how he had tried to do it. But I never once went to a lawyer.

I got sued by the brewery and attempted to be a litigant in person. I was chewed to pieces by a local solicitor who had done his homework and caught me on a complicated point of legal order. I went back into print the next day publishing the extensive defence I would have used if I had been allowed to. The brewery withdrew within hours of publication.

That was a sort of turning point to me. It wasn't a matter of false confidence, but of an innate feeling that if you felt you had 'em by the short and curlies, then publish and be damned.

After some 66 editions of the Dorset Scallywag (a complete set in vintage condition recently went for £7,000), I went into a new venture with two of my brothers: a London Scallywag, which eventually became national. We quite consciously decided never to let a lawyer edit the magazine. We would simply take our chances. We might consider advice, when we could get it, and then, if we still felt we 'ad 'em by the short and curlies, we would publish - regardless of any advice.

We only had one, rather celebrated, libel action - from the then prime minister, John Major. But Major had incorporated into his action something I thought he had rejected in his election manifesto: that libel actions should not include printers, distributors and retailers.

We were willing to take our chances in everything we published, even if occasionally we had to take someone's word for granted. But when the old soldier outside Westminster Tube station and then an obscure bookshop in Camden High Street, among many dozen others, received writs from Conservative central office, and we effectively could not sell the magazine, we were beat.

But nowadays I am watching daily as many of our former targets are getting blown away. We gave chapter and verse, for example, on Michael Portillo's homosexual dalliances. As a student I spent a whole year checking it out, including extensive trips to Cambridge and Morocco.

We were the first on to both Jonathan Aitken and Jeffrey Archer as liars and cheats. We published in some minute detail that, among much else, the lobbyist Ian Greer was the go-between for Al Fayed and Tory MPs.

If you go to the Scallywag website* you will find another two dozen names which we have seriously libelled - and would never have been able to do had we been in the hands of the lawyers.

My own definition of "alternative" media is that part not run by accountants and by the all-pervading lawyers. For libel and nearly a dozen other gagging laws have always been the most formidable weapon of the establishment.

An alternative press is not so much anti-establishment but existing and acting independently from it. It should attempt to tell alternative truths, even if they are libellous, and sometimes especially if they are libellous.

They say "opinions are free: facts are sacred". I feel it should be the opposite. Facts are, in modern journalism, often highly suspect. Eyewitness accounts of almost anything differ madly. But opinions should be considered sacred in any society which pretends it is free.

Simon Regan died on 8th August 2000 after a short illness.
*The Scallywag Magazine Archive is temporarily unavailable.
The site will be restored as soon as possible. (01/12/02)

 

[kyser_soze]

If you go to the Scallywag website* you will find another two dozen names which we have seriously libelled

Isn't the foundation of libel that the libel itself has no evidence or merit? So basically he's saying 'We sid some shit, couldn't prove any of it.'

Yeah, genius stuff.

 

[belboid]

"We were the first on to both Jonathan Aitken and Jeffrey Archer as liars and cheats"

they may (or may not, dunno, never read it) have done many fine things, but that claim is a load of old shite. Umpteen people and magazines (including PE) called Archer a liar and a cheat.

 

[tbaldwin]

Isn't the foundation of libel that the libel itself has no evidence or merit? So basically he's saying 'We sid some shit, couldn't prove any of it.'

Yeah, genius stuff.

I think the point is that if you made up untrue and damaging allegations that you might expect to get sued. Scallywag published stuff that private eye never would....

 

[kyser_soze]

Which were libellous, so made up and untrue?

 

[In Bloom]

Which were libellous, so made up and untrue?

To be fair, some of the things they were sued over appear to have turned out to be true later on (if somewhat irrelevant in the case of Major and Portillo, who gives a fuck who politicians are fucking?)

 

[tbaldwin]

Which were libellous, so made up and untrue?

No. I think it means potentially libellous....Not untrue. If the stories had been untrue the likes of Portillo,Lilley,McAlpine would have sued don't you think?

 

[Brainaddict]

Even if Private Eye is tamer than it used to be, it still shows a healthy disrespect for Britain's ridiculous libel laws - I think because being the kind of organisation they are, they don't have much to lose if they are sued.

I'm glad it exists, partly for that reason, and partly because they can be like a dog with a bone with certain stories that the mainstream media can't be arsed with - such as the basically fraudulent way the privatised CDC (commonwealth development corporation) was/is being run. The story involved delving deep into the CDC's accounts and I think most media organisations just found it too boring. Ian Hislop is a man for whom the word 'boring' means nothing. I think that can be a good thing sometimes.

 

[tbaldwin]

To be fair, some of the things they were sued over appear to have turned out to be true later on (if somewhat irrelevant in the case of Major and Portillo, who gives a fuck who politicians are fucking?)

It worries me that you could come out with a line like " who gives a fuck who politicians are fucking" When politicans are supporting reactionary and homophobic parties i reckon its important that there homosexuality is exposed.
When politicians are molesting boys from childrens homes.....

 

[In Bloom]

It worries me that you could come out with a line like " who gives a fuck who politicians are fucking" When politicans are supporting reactionary and homophobic parties i reckon its important that there homosexuality is exposed.

I don't think it really matters whether they're gay, straight or bisexual polyamourous transgender sado-masochists behind closed doors, what matters is what we can force them to do or not do, anything else is bumf.

When politicians are molesting boys from childrens homes.....

That's a separate issue to what they do with other consenting adults. I wonder why you feel the need to bring that up again in this context.

 

[tbaldwin]

I don't think it really matters whether they're gay, straight or bisexual polyamourous transgender sado-masochists behind closed doors, what matters is what we can force them to do or not do, anything else is bumf.


That's a separate issue to what they do with other consenting adults. I wonder why you feel the need to bring that up again in this context.

1 The hypocrisy of both Lilley and Portillo meant they went from being rising stars in the Tory party to a bit of a joke.
A good thing in my opinion.

2 The abuse of children in this childrens homes being procured for paedophiles was too big an issue for the mainstream media. Scallywag were genuinelly brave to publish the story.

 

[trevhagl]

fantastic!! I might start buying it again despite my dodgy eyes

 

[In Bloom]

1 The hypocrisy of both Lilley and Portillo meant they went from being rising stars in the Tory party to a bit of a joke.
A good thing in my opinion.

Again, irrelevant as far as I'm concerned, not to mention playing up to homophobia.

2 The abuse of children in this childrens homes being procured for paedophiles was too big an issue for the mainstream media. Scallywag were genuinelly brave to publish the story.

I don't know enough about the story to comment, but assuming what you say about it was true, yes, it's great that the story was covered. What does it have to do with what I'm saying though?

 

[tbaldwin]

Again, irrelevant as far as I'm concerned, not to mention playing up to homophobia.


I don't know enough about the story to comment, but assuming what you say about it was true, yes, it's great that the story was covered. What does it have to do with what I'm saying though?

Both stories were covered up because they were embarrasing for the establishment. Private eye ignored the stories Scallywag published them.

 

[agricola]

Both stories were covered up because they were embarrasing for the establishment. Private eye ignored the stories Scallywag published them.

What rubbish are you talking now? Private Eye is one of the least guilty media outlets when it comes to "covering up" stories, and it is a very rare issue indeed that does not describe some injustice, corruption or that the reader hasnt heard of.

 

[belboid]

Both stories were covered up because they were embarrasing for the establishment. Private eye ignored the stories Scallywag published them.

So you are saying that 'top' politicians were involved in such paedophilia?? Interesting.


Almost as interesting as the obvious fact that you never ever actually read Scallywag and are just pretending to have done so now.

 

[tbaldwin]

So you are saying that 'top' politicians were involved in such paedophilia?? Interesting.


Almost as interesting as the obvious fact that you never ever actually read Scallywag and are just pretending to have done so now.

You really are unbelievably silly. Ignorance and arrogance is never a good mix and you show exactly why.
What evidence have you gathered to come to the conclusion that i never read Scallywag?

 

[tbaldwin]

What rubbish are you talking now? Private Eye is one of the least guilty media outlets when it comes to "covering up" stories, and it is a very rare issue indeed that does not describe some injustice, corruption or that the reader hasnt heard of.

And the Mail will happily uncover stories that the Guardian happily ignores. And the Guardian will publish stories the Mail happily ignores.....Does that mean there both really good and anti establishment? Or maybe they are different channels for the establishments news management......just a thought like...

 

[belboid]

You really are unbelievably silly. Ignorance and arrogance is never a good mix and you show exactly why.
What evidence have you gathered to come to the conclusion that i never read Scallywag?

the shite you've written.

you never did read it, did you?

 

[tbaldwin]

the shite you've written.

you never did read it, did you?

What shite?

If i hadnt read it why would i mention it? Seriously you really are making yourself look even more stupid than usual. Of course i read the magazine, how else do you think i would know so much about it?

 

[belboid]

What shite?

If i hadnt read it why would i mention it? Seriously you really are making yourself look even more stupid than usual. Of course i read the magazine, how else do you think i would know so much about it?

You know fuck all about it! You have one half remembered story and that's it. A story which you refuse to say whether you believe it or not, nor whether there was any evidence for it being actually true.

Hence I conclude that you never read it and are pretending to now because you are a sad little man.

 

[agricola]

And the Mail will happily uncover stories that the Guardian happily ignores. And the Guardian will publish stories the Mail happily ignores.....Does that mean there both really good and anti establishment? Or maybe they are different channels for the establishments news management......just a thought like...

Arent you the same tbaldwin who agreed with this? You will forgive me if I do not share your fierce anti-establishment views.

 

[tbaldwin]

You know fuck all about it! You have one half remembered story and that's it. A story which you refuse to say whether you believe it or not, nor whether there was any evidence for it being actually true.

Hence I conclude that you never read it and are pretending to now because you are a sad little man.

1 Fuck all really? I thought you said you had never read it?
One half remembered story ?? So the Kincora boys home scandal and Portillo lilley are just half a remember story? It finished publishing years ago and no i dont remember all the stories but seeing as you cant even remember the stuff from this thread today please be gentle with me......

And as for your pathetic slimey little comment that i have refused to say whether i believe it or not.......Where belboid where?

Your conclusion that i have never read it and i am a sad little man is great coming from a political giant like yourself.......

 

[tbaldwin]

Arent you the same tbaldwin who agreed with this? You will forgive me if I do not share your fierce anti-establishment views.

yep the self same person who thinks the NHS management have wasted billions.....and your point is?

 

[agricola]

yep the self same person who thinks the NHS management have wasted billions.....and your point is?

Ongoing businesses need ongoing reform. The NHS is a massive business Labour have made plenty of mistakes but they are not responsible for the micro management of the NHS.
They inherited a vast bureaucratic management full of self serving sharks.

Well fierce anti-establishmentism that.

 

[tbaldwin]

Well fierce anti-establishmentism that.

Well yes compared to the shallow shite that thinks all the problems we have are down to politicians and people who manage and run private busineeses and maybe high court judges????

If you dont understand how the establishment works then i suggest you dont embarrass yourself any further.....

 

[agricola]

Well yes compared to the shallow shite that thinks all the problems we have are down to politicians and people who manage and run private busineeses and maybe high court judges????

If you dont understand how the establishment works then i suggest you dont embarrass yourself any further.....

GOVERNMENT NOT TO BLAME FOR PROBLEMS WITH GOVERNMENT

 

[belboid]

1 Fuck all really? I thought you said you had never read it?
One half remembered story ?? So the Kincora boys home scandal and Portillo lilley are just half a remember story? It finished publishing years ago and no i dont remember all the stories but seeing as you cant even remember the stuff from this thread today please be gentle with me......

And as for your pathetic slimey little comment that i have refused to say whether i believe it or not.......Where belboid where?

Your conclusion that i have never read it and i am a sad little man is great coming from a political giant like yourself.......

But the comment is true.

I see you've googled the name Kincora, a scandal from long before Scallywag was even started. So it doesn't really back you up, does it? And 'something' about Portillo being gay. Wow, you've convinced me you read it avidly!

 

[tbaldwin]

Oh dear Agricola try and read.....I didnt say that the govt was not to blame at all......But to suggest its all their fault is just a cop out.
The problems of turning a huge and corrupt public sector are not going to be easily sorted out. If you have some master plan or any ideas really on how to do it start a thread.....If you want to pinch a few look at my tbaldwins manifesto thread.