It's the public who are enraged, not the government.
Do we support Insulate Britain?
- Thread starter Serene
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Raheem
Well-Known Member
The premise that there exists a minority of experts denying climate change is probably false anyway.
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magneze
🎧
Great slogan that.
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
You're asking us to prove a negative. Where is your evidence that the emergency services have been significantly impacted because of these protests? Or Reclaim The Streets?Minor consequences?Are you sure about that? You need to do better than just IIRC aswell. Where's your evidence to back up what you are saying? What is your source?
gosub
~#
You have heard about the HGV drivers shortage?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
the city of london police certainly felt rather impacted on 18.6.99
I'm simply asking for the necessary evidence. We need to be clear about this.
Cid
Proper break this time
China has an enormous amount of renewable energy already operating. Unfortunately it's also fucking massive, and all the economic changes etc we're all aware of. But the point being that if you develop a load of genuinely useful renewable tech, build examples of it working etc, countries like China will adopt them.
We don't need to drift off into an imaginary land of civil servants and mandarins beavering away behind the scenes to know what government policy is towards insulating homes. We pretty much know what it is because the information is all out there.
For social & council housing it has been for a while funded by energy companies and councils. Unfortunately we are in a post-Grenfell world and the energy companies are currently fucked so this is now not a sustainable policy.
For new homes its ever increasing and onerous targets with regards to u-values. For private residential we're down to 0.11W/m2K which probably won't mean much to most but take it from me, that's a decent slab of insulation they are requiring the building to be wrapped in.
For existing private homes there is no policy at all beyond tinkering around the edges with loft insulation and cavity wall. Nor do I think there will be. It appears to me that the policy is to go all in on electricity whether it be cars or home heating and leave the problem of plentiful and renewable electricity generation to later generations (ha).
hitmouse
music obfuscation technology
Tbf, my current manager's not that bad, but I have definitely had bosses who I would 100% not expect to understand if I was late because there was a crash and the road was blocked.
It's not the public who are bringing in laws though, is it?
RainbowTown
Well-Known Member
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Who do you mean here by "the public"?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yes, i am aware of all that, none of which addresses the simple fact that they are building more coal power stations - eg from yesterday China’s plan to build more coal-fired plants deals blow to UK’s Cop26 ambitions.
mauvais
on reddit or something
AIUI someone was delayed visiting a relative who had been taken in an ambulance to hospital. Someone else drove their mother to the hospital in their own car, got delayed, and she had a stroke en route.Minor consequences?
And is it true that an ambulance was obstructed or not?
I could link to LBC / Sun / etc stories which is seemingly exclusively where all of this stuff lives, but I think we'd all rather I didn't.
Are you going to determine the merits of what people do based on rumours and anecdotes?
cupid_stunt
Merry fecking Christmas.
Of course ambulances have been caught up in these road blocks, it's inevitable, or do people think they are just levitate over the other traffic & continue on their journeys?
There's even one video showing a paramedic helping to clear the twats off the road, so his ambulance could continue on it's journey.
There's even one video showing a paramedic helping to clear the twats off the road, so his ambulance could continue on it's journey.
souljacker
innit
They can't sack you for being late once.
I do feel for zero hours people as they won't get paid but the simple answer to that is ban zero hours working.
Cid
Proper break this time
Argument remains the same. Of course China is going to keep installing coal power stations while they're still the cheapest way of insuring consistent energy capacity. But citing them as some boogeyman that defeats the point of any other action on developing low carbon economies just doesn't get you anywhere. I'm not particularly hopeful about the situation in general, clearly, but the options are rather limited.
RainbowTown
Well-Known Member
Of course ambulances have been caught up in these road blocks, it's inevitable, or do people think they are just levitate over the other traffic & continue on their journeys?
There's even one video showing a paramedic helping to clear the twats off the road, so his ambulance could continue on it's journey.
purenarcotic
Conveniently Pocket Sized
I suppose you could argue that if we continue to not act, people getting stuck and late for work are going to be the least of our concerns. But I don’t think these tactics are particularly helpful and I don’t think they bring people on side. I also think we spend lots of time arguing about the benefits or not of the action and not on discussing what we do about the impending doom or planning more actions or whatever. It feels to me that with nearly anything; the cuts to benefits, the climate etc, there is a horrible apathy and acceptance of it. We all increase our donations to food banks but don’t engage in any direct action or protest to try and change it. That’s not a criticism, I am as guilty of it as anyone, I feel really helpless and hopeless about it all. But I wonder how much time these groups spend on thinking about how to change that, or whether they just go gung ho into blocking motorways.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
If all these motorists are so concerned about ambulances getting stuck in traffic maybe they should get out their cars and start taking the fucking bus.
I'm not even joking.
Yes. Absolutely. Protests involving blocking roads need to plan in how to get ambulances, fire engines etc. through. Won't always work perhaps, but it is basic humanity to put that sort of emergency ahead of a protest.
...but, the crocodile tears of people who knowingly contribute to congestion that slows emergency vehicles daily? Fuck off.
You should see the traffic jams around the Royal Berkshire Hospital cause by people driving into Reading. Nobody needs to drive into Reading.
I'm not even joking.
Yes. Absolutely. Protests involving blocking roads need to plan in how to get ambulances, fire engines etc. through. Won't always work perhaps, but it is basic humanity to put that sort of emergency ahead of a protest.
...but, the crocodile tears of people who knowingly contribute to congestion that slows emergency vehicles daily? Fuck off.
You should see the traffic jams around the Royal Berkshire Hospital cause by people driving into Reading. Nobody needs to drive into Reading.
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
I'm asking you to go first. I am unaware of any serious harm (medical, fire, drowning at sea) happening because the emergency services were negatively impacted by the Insulate Britain protests, or Reclaim The Streets parties. I imagine if there was concrete evidence for that happening it would have been plastered all over the right wing press with a heart wringing interview with the affected parties.
So where is your evidence?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
the argument remains the same. so your solution entails a) designing renewable plants; b) getting planning permission; c) building them; d) attracting the attention of the chinese government; d) the chinese evaluating said plants; e) them going through stages a-c in a chinese context. and all this, we're told, before 2030. i suspect you'll agree that it's not really much of a plan. anyway, it's not just china, but china as the biggest current emitter (The World’s Top 10 Carbon Dioxide Emitters) does have rather a large part to play
bimble
floofy
i got a minicab one day last week when IB protests were on, the driver was full of contempt for them but he didn't say anything about ambulances or even delays he was very focussed on something he'd read about the leader of the movement owning a collection of diesel vehicles. If an ambulance had been delayed he'd have read about it but failing that there's always something else to print.
hitmouse
music obfuscation technology
"...And I would've insulated it too, if it weren't for those meddling kids!"
maomao
普費斯
There are 'look at the hypocrite' stories in the tabloid press after every protest ever.
Cid
Proper break this time
And if China didn't get 26% of it's energy from renewables it would be a fuck of a lot more. It is a shit plan. It's slow and unresponsive (on this end at least, China isn't usually that bothered about planning permission). There are alternatives I'd prefer, but they would involve large scale international cooperation and a shitload of money being funnelled out of wealthy economies, which is... unlikely. Whatever else the solution is not 'fuck it, we're doomed'.
not-bono-ever
meh
The blocking ambulances line is a well used yeh but trope already.see every other criticism all the time of the protesters everywhere in social media.
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