Dispatches & Panorama programmes on ATOS disability assessments (30/7)

[BigTom]

ATOS the only ones to benefit from PM's reform of disability benefit
Quite surprised by this article from Joan Byrnie of the Daily Record. Not looked at the comments yet though as they are generally worthy of typical red top rags.

I glanced at the first couple of comments.. then stopped.

 

[equationgirl]

ATOS the only ones to benefit from PM's reform of disability benefit
Quite surprised by this article from Joan Byrnie of the Daily Record. Not looked at the comments yet though as they are generally worthy of typical red top rags.

Someone kicked some arse and set them straight, by referencing the BBC and panorama programmes. Worth a read, there's only a handful.

 

[equationgirl]

I glanced at the first couple of comments.. then stopped.

Nah, there's a good one almost at the end. 6th or 7th I think. Worth a read.

 

[BigTom]

Nah, there's a good one almost at the end. 6th or 7th I think. Worth a read.

Yes a nice longish considered one and this which is very much to the point

Celia Lawton-Livingstone

4:00 PM on 4/8/2012

I really hope none of you are ever unable to work for more than 13 weeks at any time in your life.

What? Serious road accident and need a couple of major ops and months of rehabilitation? Quadraplegic? Psychotic? Suicidal? Tough, you got to the assessment so you're fit for work you lazy scivers! Major heart attack and need a triple bypass, no cash for you! Terminally ill? We won't pay you unless you die quickly enough! Is this the system we want?

 

[Frankie Jack]

Nah, there's a good one almost at the end. 6th or 7th I think. Worth a read.

Yeah. Had a look. The lowlife comments are being voted down and some reasonably good supportive comments on there. I did have a log in for the DR but was constantly being set on as a noob who knew nothing and I should shut up and fuck of.. After a few good verbals I got banned.

 

[equationgirl]

Yeah. Had a look. The lowlife comments are being voted down and some reasonably good supportive comments on there. I did have a log in for the DR but was constantly being set on as a noob who knew nothing and I should shut up and fuck of.. After a few good verbals I got banned.

You probably got banned for spelling words correctly

 

[Frankie Jack]

I was the epitome of politeness and subtle piss taking eq. *well learned from years on Urb* Seems I was inciting the locals to foaming rages.

Edited to add. Happens in the locals here too.

 

[Treacle Toes]

It’s not the benefit fraudsters who are targeted in the media, it’s the disabled

From the comments section:

' Estelle Haviland • a day ago

Not so long ago, my aunty, who is profoundly deaf, totally blind (without any light perception), cannot speak and has a mild learning disability (childhood measles) was investigated
for benefit fraud. Assessors left her in the middle of a busy car park to "see if she could make it back into the testing centre".
My mother saw this from the waiting room, and ran out rescue her.
She was so frightened, she was shaking.

I would say this borders on "torture".'

 

[equationgirl]

From the comments section:

Covered on the previous page Rutita, although I'm still appalled that assessors did this. Hope the complaints went in after her ordeal. Disabled people are not there to be mocked by others, and especially not as fodder for a car park-based obstacle course.

 

[_angel_]

You know what that case reminds me of, when they used to 'swim' suspected witches, if they drowned they were innocent and if they survived they were guilty and could hang.
If the woman survived this literal ordeal she was fit for work and could starve with no benefit, if she failed and wandered under a bus it proves she was disabled but nevermind.

 

[equationgirl]

You know what that case reminds me of, when they used to 'swim' suspected witches, if they drowned they were innocent and if they survived they were guilty and could hang.
If the woman survived this literal ordeal she was fit for work and could starve with no benefit, if she failed and wanderedunder a bus it proves she was disabled but nevermind.

A not-unfair comparison, _angel_, especially given that most of those drowned as witches most likely weren't

And there was me thinking we were only going back in history to Victorian England, not 17th century Scotland.

 

[_angel_]

Lol, none of them were 'witches' as that's not possible in fact! Altho poisoning got lumped in with witchcraft sometimes. I digress tho!

 

[Frankie Jack]

Covered on the previous page Rutita, although I'm still appalled that assessors did this. Hope the complaints went in after her ordeal. Disabled people are not there to be mocked by others, and especially not as fodder for a car park-based obstacle course.

I think we'd all like some verification that this actually did happen. I've never heard of anyone being taken out off the WCA rooms during the assessment at any point over the last 4/5 years.

 

[Quartz]

Is the Express seriously claiming that well in excess of half a million drug and alcohol dependent people are fit to work?

I'm absolutely gobsmacked that there are over 500K drug and alcohol dependent people.

tbf atos was brought in by labour...

So what? The Tories have now been in for 2 years. They've had ample opportunity to scrap or replace it. All they really need to do is announce that in response to concerns raised they'll be imposing an audit, and you bet your socks that things will suddenly improve. I mean, heaven forfend that ATOS should be found to be defrauding the taxpayer, what with the directors being personally liable...

'Estelle Haviland • 4 hours ago

Not so long ago, my aunty, who is profoundly deaf, totally blind (without any light perception), cannot speak and has a mild learning disability (childhood measles) was investigated for benefit fraud. Assessors left her in the middle of a busy car park to "see if she could make it back into the testing centre".
My mother saw this from the waiting room, and ran out rescue her.
She was so frightened, she was shaking.

I would say this borders on "torture""

Bollocks to torture; this is putting someone deliberately in harm's way. That's attempted murder.

 

[_angel_]

Well we'd all like to believe it isn't true.

 

[Frankie Jack]

Well we'd all like to believe it isn't true.

I don't believe or disbelieve that a blind woman was taken from her assessment to a carpark and left there to find her way back either with or without an assessor observing. I would like to see evidence though that this may have happened and that people are taken out of the room where their assessment is taking place for whatever reason.

 

[_angel_]

A not-unfair comparison, _angel_, especially given that most of those drowned as witches most likely weren't

And there was me thinking we were only going back in history to Victorian England, not 17th century Scotland.

Workfare is outdoor relief by another name imo. People have it wrong when they talk of the workhouse.
Its going back before that.
Wasn't there some tory cow who wanted the elizabethen poor laws re enacted?
That's what's happening IMO

 

[equationgirl]

I think we'd all like some verification that this actually did happen. I've never heard of anyone being taken out off the WCA rooms during the assessment at any point over the last 4/5 years.

True - at the moment (and I include myself in this) it's outrage over third-hand information.

 

[Libertad]

I don't believe or disbelieve that a blind woman was taken from her assessment to a carpark and left there to find her way back either with or without an assessor observing. I would like to see evidence though that this may have happened and that people are taken out of the room where their assessment is taking place for whatever reason.

She was being investigated for fraud so this would have been DWP though Frankie J.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

1100 people died in 8 months, not a year, so I think the ratio should be lower.

Ok, didn't spot that.

In which case, about 1:92?

So if ATOS puts you in the 'work related activity' group, it would appear that you're roughly 10x more likely to die that year than the average person of working age.

 

[equationgirl]

Ok, didn't spot that.

In which case, about 1:92?

So if ATOS puts you in the 'work related activity' it would appear that you're roughly 10x more likely to die that year than the average person of working age.

An atos assessment is pretty bad for the health then, regardless of illness.

 

[Frankie Jack]

She was being investigated for fraud so this would have been DWP though Frankie J.

Ah.. so it wasn't a WCA this happened at?

 

[BigTom]

Ah.. so it wasn't a WCA this happened at?

No, this was benefit fraud investigations.. lots of people have made the same mistake on twitter today so you're far from alone.

And hopefully the indy will be able to contact Estelle Havilland (who has both a facebook and twitter feed, the fb linked from the indy profile, so she is definitely a real person), and follow up on this story. I'll let you know if either Anne Begg MP who wrote the blog or the indy journo get back to me about it.

 

[Libertad]

Ah.. so it wasn't a WCA this happened at?

Not the way I read it.

 

[Frankie Jack]

No, this was benefit fraud investigations.. lots of people have made the same mistake on twitter today so you're far from alone.

And hopefully the indy will be able to contact Estelle Havilland (who has both a facebook and twitter feed, the fb linked from the indy profile, so she is definitely a real person), and follow up on this story. I'll let you know if either Anne Begg MP who wrote the blog or the indy journo get back to me about it.

Not that because it wasn't a WCA makes what they did any more palatable Tom. Thanks for clearing up the confusion on my part.

 

[BigTom]

Of course not, but for once ATOS isn't at fault, lol.. it's the DWP directly this time.

 

[mrs quoad]

I'm absolutely gobsmacked that there are over 500K drug and alcohol dependent people.

Conservative estimate, tbf. You could get pretty close to that with heroin / cocain alone.

http://www.coolgeography.co.uk/GCSE/AQA/Population/Population Pyramids/Population Pyramids.htm

^^^ suggests <8m people <20yrs old.

So 52m people, 500k'd be under 1%. Which strikes me as distinctly low.

 

[Frankie Jack]

Conservative estimate, tbf. You could get pretty close to that with heroin / cocain alone.

http://www.coolgeography.co.uk/GCSE/AQA/Population/Population Pyramids/Population Pyramids.htm

^^^ suggests <8m people <20yrs old.

So 52m people, 500k'd be under 1%. Which strikes me as distinctly low.

Are government just focussing on those in receipt of benefit tho Mrs Q?

 

[Quartz]

So 52m people, 500k'd be under 1%. Which strikes me as distinctly low.

I do realise it's just under 1%. That still strikes me as alarmingly high.

 

[mrs quoad]

Are government just focussing on those in receipt of benefit tho Mrs Q?

The figures originally quoted were about 20k benefit claimers. So the other 480k (minimum).....