Dispatches & Panorama programmes on ATOS disability assessments (30/7)

[Frankie Jack]

One question that I have is why was an IT company - a french IT company - given the contract to force people into work?

AFAIK.. It's a very convoluted relationship between Atos Healthcare CEOs, UNUM CEOS, *both called O'donnell* Government ministers and the plan to deny disability and get the sick and disabled off benefits using a computer program to test the victims with Biopsychosocial models flying around in the mix.

BLACK TRIANGLE go some way to explaining it. Add in James Purnell, Lord David Fraud, a think tank or three, and bobs yer uncle.

 

[panpete]

UK: Official guidelines to deal with suicide by the jobless

I know this isn't to do with panorama or dispatches but it is an alarming read about the DWP and the welfare cuts.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/may2011/suic-m18.shtml

 

[ViolentPanda]

One question that I have is why was an IT company - a french IT company - given the contract to force people into work?

A lot of these contractor companies were originally IT/business services companies. This is just an expansion on that into partial direct provision of services rather than staying strictly in a middleman role.

 

[Frankie Jack]

A lot of these contractor companies were originally IT/business services companies. This is just an expansion on that into partial direct provision of services rather than staying strictly in a middleman role.

Exactly VP. Turning various areas of Gubmnt responsibility into a (private) business structure where profit is maximised before benefit. This, I feel, is where the old addage "Private taking up public slack" comes in.

 

[treelover]

Best comment yet on that blog.


My bolding.

wonder if that is 'Red Miner/North Miner' on CIF?, he is great..

 

[Frankie Jack]

UK: Official guidelines to deal with suicide by the jobless

I know this isn't to do with panorama or dispatches but it is an alarming read about the DWP and the welfare cuts.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/may2011/suic-m18.shtml

Yeah there was a bit of a heehaw when that first came up. At that time I told my JC+ advisor I had suicidal thoughts when I'm off on a deep depression and it's only the courage and my lads that stop me, though, if I had the meds to hand it the time.. who knows. The stuffed shirt stiffened and had a splutter and came out with " but you're ok just now?" It's bollocks.

 

[Frankie Jack]

wonder if that is 'Red Miner/North Miner' on CIF?, he is great..

Aye he is eh.

 

[panpete]

Yeah there was a bit of a heehaw when that first came up. At that time I told my JC+ advisor I had suicidal thoughts when I'm off on a deep depression and it's only the courage and my lads that stop me, though, if I had the meds to hand it the time.. who knows. The stuffed shirt stiffened and had a splutter and came out with " but you're ok just now?" It's bollocks.

Facepalm indeed. Sorry to hear you were feeling so sad that you cannot tell me for sure you would not have taken an overdose if you had tablets to hand. Without sounding like the stuffed shirt at the DWP, I really do hope you are not feeling like that at the moment, and that you have support for times when you do.

 

[Frankie Jack]

Facepalm indeed. Sorry to hear you were feeling so sad that you cannot tell me for sure you would not have taken an overdose if you had tablets to hand. Without sounding like the stuffed shirt at the DWP, I really do hope you are not feeling like that at the moment, and that you have support for times when you do.

Thanks pp. Yeah I'm ok just now. It's winter when it gets bad. 18 hours darkness and watching every penny on the utility meters that use up half my benefit each week and trying to exist foodwise on what's left. Being ill, single, on JSA with attachments taken off of course means in the medias view I'm living it up with wall to wall flat screen holidays and an alky, fag smoking, drug addict with cars in the garge and all the mobile, ipod, home comforts that the average working family could never afford.

The reality is £57 a week and mostly struggling to keep the cats bowl filled.

 

[panpete]

Thanks pp. Yeah I'm ok just now. It's winter when it gets bad. 18 hours darkness and watching every penny on the utility meters that use up half my benefit each week and trying to exist foodwise on what's left. Being ill, single, on JSA with attachments taken off of course means in the medias view I'm living it up with wall to wall flat screen holidays and an alky, fag smoking, drug addict with cars in the garge and all the mobile, ipod, home comforts that the average working family could never afford.

The reality is £57 a week and mostly struggling to keep the cats bowl filled.

It's really sad to hear that in the 21st Century people are unsure if they can afford to feed themselves.
It's almost like reading dystopian fiction. I'm not saying what you're saying isn't true, what I mean is that the genuine level of suffering from members of our modern day society sounds like part of a fantasy horror or something, but it isn't, it's present-day reality.

 

[Greebo]

<snip>It's almost like reading dystopian fiction. I'm not saying what you're saying isn't true, what I mean is that the genuine level of suffering from members of our modern day society sounds like part of a fantasy horror or something, but it isn't, it's present-day reality.

Word. I can't bear to leave my copy of "Benefit" where it's visible, far too much of it has come to pass.

 

[treelover]

'Estelle Haviland • 4 hours ago

Not so long ago, my aunty, who is profoundly deaf, totally blind (without any light perception), cannot speak and has a mild learning disability (childhood measles) was investigated for benefit fraud. Assessors left her in the middle of a busy car park to "see if she could make it back into the testing centre".
My mother saw this from the waiting room, and ran out rescue her.
She was so frightened, she was shaking.

I would say this borders on "torture""

found here:

http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2012...o-are-targeted-in-the-media-its-the-disabled/

In what way would descriptors help in this example?????Reply'


must have missed this comment when I read the blog, for gods sake how can this be tolerated in a decent society?

This is not acceptable

Could someone send this to Guardian contacts, new statesman, owen jones other progressive media..

 

[panpete]

Word. I can't bear to leave my copy of "Benefit" where it's visible, far too much of it has come to pass.

 

[Frankie Jack]

'Estelle Haviland • 4 hours ago

Not so long ago, my aunty, who is profoundly deaf, totally blind (without any light perception), cannot speak and has a mild learning disability (childhood measles) was investigated for benefit fraud. Assessors left her in the middle of a busy car park to "see if she could make it back into the testing centre".
My mother saw this from the waiting room, and ran out rescue her.
She was so frightened, she was shaking.

I would say this borders on "torture""

found here:

http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2012...o-are-targeted-in-the-media-its-the-disabled/

In what way would descriptors help in this example?????Reply'


must have missed this comment when I read the blog, for gods sake how can this be tolerated in a decent society?

This is not acceptable

Could someone send this to Guardian contacts, new statesman, owen jones other progressive media..

I caught that today just as I was up to my neck in stuff. Unbelievable aint it. Where do I know Estelle Haviland from............?

 

[panpete]

'Estelle Haviland • 4 hours ago

Not so long ago, my aunty, who is profoundly deaf, totally blind (without any light perception), cannot speak and has a mild learning disability (childhood measles) was investigated for benefit fraud. Assessors left her in the middle of a busy car park to "see if she could make it back into the testing centre".
My mother saw this from the waiting room, and ran out rescue her.
She was so frightened, she was shaking.

I would say this borders on "torture""

found here:

http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2012...o-are-targeted-in-the-media-its-the-disabled/

In what way would descriptors help in this example?????Reply'


must have missed this comment when I read the blog, for gods sake how can this be tolerated in a decent society?

This is not acceptable

Could someone send this to Guardian contacts, new statesman, owen jones other progressive media..

I think Estelle should sell her story to the press.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

I think Estelle should sell her story to the press.

Yeah, if she gets enough money, she might not need ESA

 

[panpete]

Yeah, if she gets enough money, she might not need ESA

SRSLY though, I do.

 

[BigTom]

'Estelle Haviland • 4 hours ago

Not so long ago, my aunty, who is profoundly deaf, totally blind (without any light perception), cannot speak and has a mild learning disability (childhood measles) was investigated for benefit fraud. Assessors left her in the middle of a busy car park to "see if she could make it back into the testing centre".
My mother saw this from the waiting room, and ran out rescue her.
She was so frightened, she was shaking.

I would say this borders on "torture""

found here:

http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2012...o-are-targeted-in-the-media-its-the-disabled/

In what way would descriptors help in this example?????Reply'


must have missed this comment when I read the blog, for gods sake how can this be tolerated in a decent society?

This is not acceptable

Could someone send this to Guardian contacts, new statesman, owen jones other progressive media..

fuck me.
anyway, I posted this on twitter this morning and I've never had so many comments coming back to me.. it's probably my 3rd most retweeted tweet (behind one about workfare in february when it was a huge national news story and one from ukuncut, both of which made "top tweet" status which I don't know how it happens tbh, but both were tweets on very busy hashtags which this isn't).
Shiv Malik has been tweeted at so he should see the story, but I think someone from the indy is most likely to be able to follow this up as they may have contact details for the person who commented.

e2a I've also tweeted to Anne Begg MP who wrote the article and an indy journo I've spoken to before about ukuncut stuff, so hopefully there will be some follow up on this.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

I'm just watching the panorama. It says that last year between january and august an average of 32 people that the DWP had ruled fit to work died every week. That, if true, if fucking scandalous.

 

[panpete]

More deaths = less money spent on public spending.
The welfare reforms are totally devoid of any human element.
The people dying are not related to, or are not friends of the ministers in charge of welfare so they don't care.
Maye the welfare reforms are a type of 'cull' to the poor population. Either deaths from lack of care, or suicide from total despair and inability to live in such a way any longer.
It's hard for me to grasp just how ruthless and heartless they are.

 

[BigTom]

I'm just watching the panorama. It says that last year between january and august an average of 32 people that the DWP had ruled fit to work died every week. That, if true, if fucking scandalous.

http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/investigations/2012/04/32-die-a-week-after-failing-in.html

We've used the Freedom of Information Act to discover that, between January and August last year, 1,100 claimants died after they were put in the "work-related activity group".

This group - which accounted for 21% of all claimants at the last count - get a lower rate of benefit for one year and are expected to go out and find work.

This compares to 5,300 deaths of people who were put in the "support group" - which accounts for 22% of claimants - for the most unwell, who get the full, no-strings benefit of up to £99.85 a week.

We don't know how many people died after being found "fit to work", the third group, as that information was "not available".

But we have also found that 1,600 people died before their assessment had been completed.

(my emphasis)

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Quick calculation suggests that with a sample of 730,000 at various stages and types of ESA a figure of 8000 deaths a year across all types is about 1:90 but obviously that includes the people who were so sick that even those bastards at ATOS couldn't justify kicking them off 'support' ESA. The 'work related activity group' figure of 1100 deaths in one years for 21% of the total would be 1:139.

The annual chance of death for all adults of working age looks like it's around 1:800 or so ... (guessing that number by looking at the curve here, anyone have a better figure?)

Paging Kabbes (I'm guessing he's going to know how to best interpret this kind of data)

 

[BigTom]

The important figure there is the WRAG group one, but really it would be the fit-to-work one that would be most telling, except of course they don't give those figures.

Kabbes isn't around anymore afaik ymu, Mrs Quoad and umm.. equationgirl i think are also statisticians.

I'm not sure how much real meaning you can get out of the statistic tbh. You'd expect people who are put in the wrag group to have a higher death rate than the whole population as well.

If you had a figure for those declared fit-for-work you could compare that directly with the population as a whole, and expect it to be the same.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

The important figure there is the WRAG group one, but really it would be the fit-to-work one that would be most telling, except of course they don't give those figures.

Kabbes isn't around anymore afaik ymu, Mrs Quoad and umm.. equationgirl i think are also statisticians.

I'm not sure how much real meaning you can get out of the statistic tbh. You'd expect people who are put in the wrag group to have a higher death rate than the whole population as well.

If you had a figure for those declared fit-for-work you could compare that directly with the population as a whole, and expect it to be the same.

Yep, would be a very useful thing for some researchers to produce a 'declared fit for work' figure, because I think we might reasonably predict that it would show a big difference from the 'all people of working age' figure.

 

[_angel_]

'Estelle Haviland • 4 hours ago

Not so long ago, my aunty, who is profoundly deaf, totally blind (without any light perception), cannot speak and has a mild learning disability (childhood measles) was investigated for benefit fraud. Assessors left her in the middle of a busy car park to "see if she could make it back into the testing centre".
My mother saw this from the waiting room, and ran out rescue her.
She was so frightened, she was shaking.

I would say this borders on "torture""

found here:

http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2012...o-are-targeted-in-the-media-its-the-disabled/

In what way would descriptors help in this example?????Reply'


must have missed this comment when I read the blog, for gods sake how can this be tolerated in a decent society?

This is not acceptable

Could someone send this to Guardian contacts, new statesman, owen jones other progressive media..

Its definitely abuse. It looks like they were hoping she'd get run over. If that happened in a care home itd rightly be seen as abuse and could be investigated as such. I fail to see why being a so called assessor changes that.

 

[Frankie Jack]

Surprisingly, DWP don't keep any records of those kicked off ESA onto JSA at all. Quite a few have made noises about this but I don't think it's been taken up in any form.

People like myself who would never pass a WCA as it stands or scrape into the WRAG through appeals.

 

[Frankie Jack]

Ah.. I've seen Estelle Haviland on twitter convos. Her account is locked down tight though.

 

[Frankie Jack]

ATOS the only ones to benefit from PM's reform of disability benefit
Quite surprised by this article from Joan Byrnie of the Daily Record. Not looked at the comments yet though as they are generally worthy of typical red top rags.

 

[equationgirl]

I'm just watching the panorama. It says that last year between january and august an average of 32 people that the DWP had ruled fit to work died every week. That, if true, if fucking scandalous.

It is true - the Mirror did a massive investigation and uncovered it through Freedom of Information requests.

http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/investigations/2012/04/32-die-a-week-after-failing-in.html

ETA: Beaten to it by BigTom!

 

[equationgirl]

Quick calculation suggests that with a sample of 730,000 at various stages and types of ESA a figure of 8000 deaths a year across all types is about 1:90 but obviously that includes the people who were so sick that even those bastards at ATOS couldn't justify kicking them off 'support' ESA. The 'work related activity group' figure of 1100 deaths in one years for 21% of the total would be 1:139.

The annual chance of death for all adults of working age looks like it's around 1:800 or so ... (guessing that number by looking at the curve here, anyone have a better figure?)

Paging Kabbes (I'm guessing he's going to know how to best interpret this kind of data)

1100 people died in 8 months, not a year, so I think the ratio should be lower.