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Discussion: UK anti-vaxx 'freedom' morons, protests and QAnon idiots

ddraig said:
What has any of it got to do with "vegan"?
Click to expand...
Just making a relative point.
When I adopted the "fringe" vegan diet (that I have always considered perfectly fine), nearly 40 years ago, there were these "raw" fruitloops floating around who I barely noticed at the time because of the lack of an Internet in the early 80s ... but they came across a bit like naturists ...

With the benefit of the Internet, I decide to do a bit of tweaking to my diet in recent years and I find that "vegan" has become almost synonymous with "raw" in some circles - along of course with "organic", "gluten free", GM-free etc ... and of course add shock-horror Monsanto/glyphosate to the equation and we get to that quack Senneff and onto Wakefield ....

I would like someone to come up with a Venn diagram that would illustrate if any of the adherents of pseudoscience and conspiracy shit have areas where they actually vehemently disagree - or whether they just agree to differ because enough of it overlaps ...
 
SheilaNaGig said:
But it really demonstrates the lack of understanding around all this.

It’s breathing on each other that’s the biggest vector. Breathing while talking in enclosed spaces. Not touching apples.
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^^^ This. The way this has been communicated (or rather not communicated) has been so poor.
From the very early "wash your hands more often" , and the overemphasis on hand hygiene when shops first reopened, and the late acknowledgment let alone education on aerosol spread and letting people labour under the belief that smell perspex dividers in restaurants could halt the spread of the virus.
Even here among our generally very well informed urbs this misinformation has crept up time and time again, so god knows what the rest of the population thinks who aren't massive covid geeks.
 
Nutters delivering leaflets in NI. :mad:

Fraudulent leaflets containing UK Government branding which provide misleading information about Covid-19 have been described as “distressing” by residents who received them in south Belfast.

The two leaflets, which were delivered directly to Lisburn Road residents, are topped with “HM Government” and the logo of the National Health Service (NHS).

Picked up by a Neighbourhood Watch group in the area, one of the leaflets claims that Covid-19 does not exist and describes the current health regulations as a “freedom grab”.
Click to expand...

The leaflet also claims that social distancing and mask wearing has “proven harmful to health”, despite no scientific evidence to support this.

The leaflet also uses unsubstantiated figures to claim that vaccines are not safe.

Another larger piece of correspondence distributed to some residents, claims that the UK Government “have the rights over your body with the Coronavirus 2020 Act”.
Click to expand...

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk

Fraudulent UK Government-branded leaflets with Covid info sent to Belfast residents

Fraudulent leaflets containing UK Government branding which provide misleading information about Covid-19 have been described as “distressing” by residents who received them in south Belfast.
www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk
 
gentlegreen said:
Just making a relative point.
When I adopted the "fringe" vegan diet (that I have always considered perfectly fine), nearly 40 years ago, there were these "raw" fruitloops floating around who I barely noticed at the time because of the lack of an Internet in the early 80s ... but they came across a bit like naturists ...

With the benefit of the Internet, I decide to do a bit of tweaking to my diet in recent years and I find that "vegan" has become almost synonymous with "raw" in some circles - along of course with "organic", "gluten free", GM-free etc ... and of course add shock-horror Monsanto/glyphosate to the equation and we get to that quack Senneff and onto Wakefield ....

I would like someone to come up with a Venn diagram that would illustrate if any of the adherents of pseudoscience and conspiracy shit have areas where they actually vehemently disagree - or whether they just agree to differ because enough of it overlaps ...
Click to expand...
Say "raw" fruitloops then, not vegan
 
zora said:
^^^ This. The way this has been communicated (or rather not communicated) has been so poor.
From the very early "wash your hands more often" , and the overemphasis on hand hygiene when shops first reopened, and the late acknowledgment let alone education on aerosol spread and letting people labour under the belief that smell perspex dividers in restaurants could halt the spread of the virus.
Even here among our generally very well informed urbs this misinformation has crept up time and time again, so god knows what the rest of the population thinks who aren't massive covid geeks.
Click to expand...


I wonder if some of the lack of understanding is actually a sort of cognitive dissonance, between hearing the truth, and real fear of it being true.

I agree that the dissemination of information has been woeful. It should have been pushed to the point of overload, on posters, advertising hoardings, radio, television, internet pop up ads, and attention given to the fact that plenty of people don’t watch telly or listen to the radio or use public transport.

Where were/are the well made interesting and engaging documentaries about what Covid is, how it is transmitted and how to stay safe? They could have been pitched at every level of comprehension from school child up through every demographic. It would have taken extraordinary logistic commitment, but surely an extraordinary global health crisis is reason enough to make the attempt.

I suspect that such a campaign to increase public understanding around the issues would not only help keep people committed to being Covid safe, but also help to push back against the conspiracy bullshit.

If they’re prepared to use nudge tactics to make people vote for them or to buy shit, why not for this.


And yeah, I wonder if the fear factor has contributed to people not wanting to really take on board the facts: singing, talking, laughing, these are fundamental to our basic deep critical crucial connections. And it’s invisible, the breathe, so we can’t track it.

It’s like a kind of medieval terror: being breathed on can make you sick unto death. Please let it not be true, it’s simply not possible.... Nope, I don’t accept this horrible truth, because once I accept it, everything changes, and I don’t want anything to change, I want things to go on as they were.

Interestingly, the Covid denier at work has started being super-careful about touching stuff. She wears gloves at the till; but not a mask. (I can’t say more about her thinking because I now avoid conversation with her.)


Washing our hands feels like we’re doing something useful (it is, but minimally so in comparison to wearing a fucking mask). But how do we police the very breathe of life? (Answer: wear a mask...)

Having listened to some of the concerns of those who refuse to wear a mask, it seems to me that - for some at least - they feel that a mask somehow oblates or eliminates them, diminishes their personhood.

Breathing, talking, laughing, singing.

If some alien life force came to Earth and banned these things by force of death, we’d rise up and resist.

So on one hand people feel like the mask is an obliteration and they feel obliged and compelled to resist that, and on the other there’s a kind of awful terror that the very breath is dangerous, which is terrifying to contemplate and they resist accepting it.


I don’t know... I’m just thinking out loud really.

I think I’m saying that it’s deeply complicated, and resonant of some very old deep stuff in us. It’s not just politics (or what passes for politics in a Covid world), it’s something else as well, something more primal.
 
SheilaNaGig said:
Having listened to some of the concerns of those who refuse to wear a mask, it seems to me that - for some at least - they feel that a mask somehow oblates or eliminates them, diminishes their personhood.

Breathing, talking, laughing, singing.
Click to expand...

But all of those things, with the possible exception of singing, are possible behind a mask. Doesn't excuse the anti-maskers.

(Not aimed at you, SheilaNaGig , but at them.
 
I've actually had one or two good things to say abiut Piers Corbyn earlier this year on here, and in the past.

Not in any way defending his climate change denial stance or anti-vaccination stance I should emphasise :mad:
Just that back in the day he was a genunely nice person, good squatter-activist, good pub-lover/good beer-appreciator/campaigner etc. =-- I and one or two mates knew him/drank with him a bit.

But!! After that image from that disgusting leaflet above? :hmm:

Utterly beyond defending :mad: :(
 
killer b said:
this also describes Nigel Farage, it doesn't mean anything.
Click to expand...

True, but I'd dispute Farage likes good beer -- he drinks ultra-boring Greene King IPA FFS ;)

Irrelevantly in this thread I admit :oops:, Piers Corbyn had far better taste in ale, and he wasn't right wing back then. Less sure about now, mind you .....

His conspiralunacy, and the digustingness of that leaflet,is beyond dispute anyway :mad:
 
Yoga etc hippy types who refused to wear a mask, saying that their adherence to a pure lifestyle will somehow protect them from infection. It's a kind of fascism. I know others have said that but I can't remember the term that is used for it

Plenty of these types have long time been ostensibly advocating for some kind of hippy revolution, some kind of radical paradigm shift that will set us all on our toes and force us to rethink everything,

And yet, when we were suddenly forced to make radical changes, it is they who stubbornly resist the changes forced upon us.

Is it some kind of self congratulatory refusal to be wrong?

They are so attached to being the prophets that they can't give up their self held beliefs of being ahead of the curve; so they just shifted from being right about how wrong everyone was about the way things were, to being right about how wrong everyone now is about the way things are.


Dunno. Thinking aloud here.
 
Last edited:
William of Walworth said:
I've actually had one or two good things to say abiut Piers Corbyn earlier this year on here, and in the past.

Not in any way defending his climate change denial stance or anti-vaccination stance I should emphasise :mad:
Just that back in the day he was a genunely nice person, good squatter-activist, good pub-lover/good beer-appreciator/campaigner etc. =-- I and one or two mates knew him/drank with him a bit.

But!! After that image from that disgusting leaflet above? :hmm:

Utterly beyond defending :mad: :(
Click to expand...
What about the lovely people who only like drinking lager?
 
gentlegreen said:
Just making a relative point.
When I adopted the "fringe" vegan diet (that I have always considered perfectly fine), nearly 40 years ago, there were these "raw" fruitloops floating around who I barely noticed at the time because of the lack of an Internet in the early 80s ... but they came across a bit like naturists ...

With the benefit of the Internet, I decide to do a bit of tweaking to my diet in recent years and I find that "vegan" has become almost synonymous with "raw" in some circles - along of course with "organic", "gluten free", GM-free etc ... and of course add shock-horror Monsanto/glyphosate to the equation and we get to that quack Senneff and onto Wakefield ....

I would like someone to come up with a Venn diagram that would illustrate if any of the adherents of pseudoscience and conspiracy shit have areas where they actually vehemently disagree - or whether they just agree to differ because enough of it overlaps ...
Click to expand...
Nothing inherently strange about organic and GM free, imho. Both forms of agriculture may be a bit pricey, but their aim is to help save the ecosystem we all rely on and not to let mega global capitalism do it's worse to the planet. Some adherents of both organic and GM may be a bit too unhinged, but that doesn't mean they all are.
 
Kevbad the Bad said:
Nothing inherently strange about organic and GM free, imho. Both forms of agriculture may be a bit pricey, but their aim is to help save the ecosystem we all rely on and not to let mega global capitalism do it's worse to the planet. Some adherents of both organic and GM may be a bit too unhinged, but that doesn't mean they all are.
Click to expand...

Basically, you get mentalists everywhere.
 
killer b said:
Actually, most of the hippies I know who go in for this stuff just smoke too much weed and have gone from being a bit anti-establishment and conspiracy interested to fully immersed after 8 months of isolation with mad cunts on YouTube telling them all sorts of bullshit
Click to expand...


Why though?

Why are they susceptible to it?

It's not because they're stoned.
 
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