Discussion: UK anti-vaxx 'freedom' morons, protests and QAnon idiots

[cupid_stunt]

OK, I'm a cunt for not really wanting to show my vaccine status to go to the shops.

But no one is suggesting needing one to go into shops, they tend to be essential, leisure venues are not, so you have the right to not being vaccinated and not going to such venues, if covid passports are required.

 

[existentialist]

There are definitely issues with vaccine passports and similar restrictions which need thinking through, and it should be possible to challenge them without being accused of conspiracy thinking.

I found this twitter thread by the guy who runs Cafe Oto a pretty worthwhile and thought provoking read. Lots of people called him some sort of conspiracist or covid denier for just having this discussion.

I completely agree that there are debates to be had about vaccine passports, etc. I'm pretty queasy about the idea.

But I don't rely on half-truths and proven falsehoods to support my position.

 

[existentialist]

OK, I'm a cunt for not really wanting to show my vaccine status to go to the shops.

There, I admit it. Feel free to call me a cunt as much as you want.

No. You're a cunt for pursuing discredited lines of argument around Covid and vaccination.

 

[nogojones]

It's a stretch, but there's also no denying that vaccine hesitancy is more prevalent in ethnic minority & immigrant communities, poor working class areas, etc.

Yeah. I believe vax hesitancy is more about a mistrust of the government and authority - with good reason. We've had nothing but mixed messaging and a callous disregard for the deaths of 160,000+ from the government and no sign of anything that questions the narrative from the opposition.

Of my mates who have gone covid denial, 50% of them ain't white and I can see they have more reason to not trust the gvt from the get go than others.

I started to try and point them towards more reliable sources of information, but the sensationalism of youtube, tiktok and FB links is much more appealing, so they've become more hardened in their opinions as time progressed. I tend to ignore their FB posts and everyone else does the same. No positive or negative attention and just hope they come out the other side without any serious damage to their or their families health.

If they start coming out with "it's just like the nazi's" or some wank about apartheid, then yeah, I'll take the piss, because I've clearly underestimated their stupid.

 

[Chilli.s]

Well said nogo

 

[existentialist]

Yeah. I believe vax hesitancy is more about a mistrust of the government and authority - with good reason. We've had nothing but mixed messaging and a callous disregard for the deaths of 160,000+ from the government and no sign of anything that questions the narrative from the opposition.

Of my mates who have gone covid denial, 50% of them ain't white and I can see they have more reason to not trust the gvt from the get go than others.

I started to try and point them towards more reliable sources of information, but the sensationalism of youtube, tiktok and FB links is much more appealing, so they've become more hardened in their opinions as time progressed. I tend to ignore their FB posts and everyone else does the same. No positive or negative attention and just hope they come out the other side without any serious damage to their or their families health.

If they start coming out with "it's just like the nazi's" or some wank about apartheid, then yeah, I'll take the piss, because I've clearly underestimated their stupid.

It's certainly true that the government's (and not just ours) ham-fisted approach to the whole pandemic thing has made the problem a lot worse. I don't trust the government to do the right thing around it, but I don't pick that up and run with it to the point where I'm arguing that it's all some big scheme to turn us all into mindless drones. Even if I suspect that our government would love for the entire population to be a bunch of mindless drones.

 

[IC3D]

The vaccine protects against serious illness in vulnerable people most of the time.
Vaccinated people catch and spread Covid. The 3rd dose rollout in a year should be a bit of a red flag as to the effacy and longevity of its protection at this point.

 

[StoneRoad]

you mean this

 

[existentialist]

The vaccine protects against serious illness in vulnerable people most of the time.
Vaccinated people catch and spread Covid. The 3rd dose rollout in a year should be a bit of a red flag as to the effacy and longevity of its protection at this point.

But that's not the whole picture, is it?

 

[IC3D]

Yeah. I believe vax hesitancy is more about a mistrust of the government and authority - with good reason. We've had nothing but mixed messaging and a callous disregard for the deaths of 160,000+ from the government and no sign of anything that questions the narrative from the opposition.

Of my mates who have gone covid denial, 50% of them ain't white and I can see they have more reason to not trust the gvt from the get go than others.

I started to try and point them towards more reliable sources of information, but the sensationalism of youtube, tiktok and FB links is much more appealing, so they've become more hardened in their opinions as time progressed. I tend to ignore their FB posts and everyone else does the same. No positive or negative attention and just hope they come out the other side without any serious damage to their or their families health.

If they start coming out with "it's just like the nazi's" or some wank about apartheid, then yeah, I'll take the piss, because I've clearly underestimated their stupid.

I think that's a really generalising post frankly

 

[cupid_stunt]

Vaccinated people catch and spread Covid.

But, not nearly so much.




And, clearly, if you don't get infected, you can't spread it.

 

[LDC]

The vaccine protects against serious illness in vulnerable people most of the time.
Vaccinated people catch and spread Covid. The 3rd dose rollout in a year should be a bit of a red flag as to the effacy and longevity of its protection at this point.

Don't you work in healthcare? If so what's yr role?

 

[Griff]

No. You're a cunt for pursuing discredited lines of argument around Covid and vaccination.

I said the vaccines don't stop infection or spread.

 

[LDC]

I said the vaccines don't stop infection or spread.

Are you going to answer any of the questions put to you on here?

What are your specific concerns about the vaccine? For example.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I said the vaccines don't stop infection or spread.

But, they reduce risk.

Fuck me, it's like knocking your head against a brick wall.

 

[LDC]

I said the vaccines don't stop infection or spread.

Which as a statement on this topic is completely inadequate and (purposefully?) misleading.

Seatbelts don't stop people having or being killed in car crashes. Sometimes people actually end up with injuries caused by wearing seatbelts.

 

[Griff]

What are your specific concerns about the vaccine? For example.

Unknown short, medium and longterm side effects is a major concern.

As previously mentioned, picking my mother up off the floor with a bleed to the brain after her first jab wasn't great.

Other people in our circle of friends etc. with strokes and heart attacks. But hey how, not to worry.

Anyway my initial post was about coving passes not my personal thoughts on the vaccines.

 

[LDC]

Other people in our circle of friends etc. with strokes and heart attacks. But hey how, not to worry.

How many people in your circle have had strokes and heart attacks as a likely result of having the vaccine?

Months ago I came across someone at work (a healthcare staff member) telling everyone who would listen that had a DVT as a result of the vaccine. They got knee and calf pain the days after first AZ dose, so they were sent to A&E to investigate whether it was a DVT or not. Turns out it wasn't at all, it was arthritis pain, but they were telling everyone they thought they had a DVT. No idea who was at fault; the staff for poor communication, anxiety exacerbated by media coverage of side effects, the patient was 'lying' or story telling for other reasons, etc. She was also someone that was quite happy to entertain conspiracy theory stuff with another staff member before that happened...

And she's far from the only one I've seen do this. Maybe it's not fair but second hand stories of 'vaccine side effects' make me raise an eyebrow tbh.

 

[Griff]

Six we've heard about since January.

 

[LDC]

Six we've heard about since January.

Weird coincidence how you have been against lockdowns and restrictions all along etc. and then it's you out of all of us that amazingly knows loads of people with serious vaccine reactions. Almost like you're talking absolute fantasy bollocks on this subject.

 

[elbows]

Its no coincidence that you talked shit about masks and lockdowns and other aspects of the pandemic is it? So dont pretend its just about vaccine safety, your opinions on the pandemic are bullshit in every direction we might look.

edit - snap.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Six we've heard about since January.

Blimey. I wonder why all the vaccinated people I know aren’t dropping like flies reporting similar.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Unknown short, medium and longterm side effects is a major concern.

As previously mentioned, picking my mother up off the floor with a bleed to the brain after her first jab wasn't great.

Other people in our circle of friends etc. with strokes and heart attacks. But hey how, not to worry.

Anyway my initial post was about coving passes not my personal thoughts on the vaccines.

If, and it's a big 'if', they were caused by the blood clotting issues associated with the AZ vaccines, the cases have been very low compared to the high risks of catching covid, but if that's the concern, have one of the mRNA ones.

 

[LDC]

You're a liar, but what's interesting and weird is I'm not sure you even know you're lying.

 

[Griff]

Weird coincidence how you have been against lockdowns and restrictions all along etc. and then it's you out of all of us that amazingly knows loads of people with serious vaccine reactions. Alst like you're talking absolute fantasy bollocks on this subject.

Who isn't against government restrictions?

"Fantasy bollocks"?

Wow!

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Tbf, I know people who have a cluster of friends/relatives/neighbours who have had a nasty turn after the vax.

 

[elbows]

'nasty turn' is a rather broad term.

 

[LDC]

Tbf, I know people who have a cluster of friends/relatives/neighbours who have had a nasty turn after the vax.

Don't equate feeling shit, even really shit, with having a stroke post-vaccine.

 

[Griff]

You're a liar, but what's interesting and weird is I'm not sure you even know you're lying.

Why the fuck would I lie about this shit?

 

[LDC]

Who isn't against government restrictions?

Jesus christ you're a fucking moron aren't you?