Did You Vote LibDem?

[moon23]

Not even Tories believe in genuinely 'free' markets.

I know

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Some of it would work on trust, if you are saying to a new immigrant this area is a good place to settle as it will have more work and services then that's one way it works.

Lol, actually that does tend to be how it works now.

Personaly I have more of a free-movement approach, but this address the concerns that a large amount of the electorate has in areas where there are a large number of immigrants placing strains on local services.

While I think local people should be given a much bigger input into all aspects of how their community and locality develops - the biggest concern people I know have is cheap labour undermining pay and conditions. This proposal does nothing to tackle that given that the vast majority of migrant workers are EU citizens and won't be affected, and in fact it could make things worse by encouraging employers and the local RDAs to team up to bring in foreign workers becasue locals are refusing to work for the artificially low wages offered.

 

[cesare]

Sensible way of ensuring local services are not overwhelmed which results in the rise of the likes of the EDL or BNP who pray on the upset caused by too many new people arriving in one place.

The amount of twisting that you'd have to do to simultaneously be campaigning against ID cards, whilst seeking to introduce a pass system for immigrants baffles me.

 

[moon23]

Lol, actually that does tend to be how it works now.



While I think local people should be given a much bigger input into all aspects of how their community and locality develops - the biggest concern people I know have is cheap labour undermining pay and conditions. This proposal does nothing to tackle that given that the vast majority of migrant workers are EU citizens and won't be affected, and in fact it could make things worse by encouraging employers and the local RDAs to team up to bring in foreign workers becasue locals are refusing to work for the artificially low wages offered.

If there are jobs that people in this country don't want to do in certain areas then it's good that people team up to bring in cheap labour and offer work to people who are grateful for it. For instance in some farming areas peoplee might need fruit pickers. People in this country benifet from the low prices that cheap labour provides.

 

[moon23]

The amount of twisting that you'd have to do to simultaneously be campaigning against ID cards, whilst seeking to introduce a pass system for immigrants baffles me.

You need to distinguish between a universal Identity document for suvillance purposes and a docuement that is a certificate or permit for work purposes. Giving people a permit to work in certain areas where they are needed is not a pass system and does not require border police. I can't belive you are actually beliving what Cameron said in the debate about the requirements for internal police checking passes.

 

[cesare]

If there are jobs that people in this country don't want to do in certain areas then it's good that people team up to bring in cheap labour and offer work to people who are grateful for it. For instance in some farming areas peoplee might need fruit pickers. People in this country benifet from the low prices that cheap labour provides.

It's the idea of 'cheap labour' that is at the root of the problems. If employers weren't undercutting local pay then there wouldn't be as much attraction for immigrants in the first place.

 

[cesare]

You need to distinguish between a universal Identity document for suvillance purposes and a docuement that is a certificate or permit for work purposes. Giving people a permit to work in certain areas where they are needed is not a pass system and does not require border police. I can't belive you are actually beliving what Cameron said in the debate about the requirements for internal police checking passes.

Why shouldn't I believe him? You lot seem to.

 

[cesare]

LibDem tells me not to believe Cameron lolz

 

[moon23]

It's the idea of 'cheap labour' that is at the root of the problems. If employers weren't undercutting local pay then there wouldn't be as much attraction for immigrants in the first place.

No it would just become cheaper to import everything from countries where it was cheaper to produce everything instead. Having economic production in this country is better as we benifet from the cheap goods being produced which are then used in other parts of the economy.

 

[cesare]

No it would just become cheaper to import everything from countries where it was cheaper to produce everything instead. Having economic production in this country is better as we benifet from the cheap goods being produced which are then used in other parts of the economy.

How cheap do you want labour to get, exactly? Are you lot planning on scrapping the minimum wage as well?

 

[moon23]

If people want to shop at Tesco and demand a low cost for everything then you are going to need cheap labour.

 

[cesare]

If people want to shop at Tesco and demand a low cost for everything then you are going to need cheap labour.

Attack pay rather than Tesco huge profits. Fantastic.

 

[moon23]

LibDem tells me not to believe Cameron lolz

Just pointing out the hypocrisy of people who hate the Tories cherry picking a bit of Tory spin about internal borders which they used to justify their cap on immigration.

 

[cesare]

Just pointing out the hypocrisy of people who hate the Tories cherry picking a bit of Tory spin about internal borders which they used to justify their cap on immigration.

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

 

[moon23]

Attack pay rather than Tesco huge profits. Fantastic.

If people want workers to have better pay they should shop at places that treat their workers better. This is why I don't often shop at Tesco ( I do occasionaly if it is the only place open nearby).

Tesco has a high profit becuase people like shopping there.

 

[cesare]

If people want workers to have better pay they should shop at places that treat their workers better. This is why I don't often shop at Tesco ( I do occasionaly if it is the only place open nearby).

Tesco has a high profit becuase people like shopping there.

No. Tax the fuck out of high profits.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Low wages are the fault of consumers and immigrants are to blame for the BNP; thanks for clarification moon23. I can see why you approve of the coalition. What I don't get is why not just join the Conservative Party?

Louis MacNeice

 

[trevhagl]

If people want workers to have better pay they should shop at places that treat their workers better. This is why I don't often shop at Tesco ( I do occasionaly if it is the only place open nearby).

Tesco has a high profit becuase people like shopping there.

can you recommend anywhere in 2010 that actually treats it's workers well??

 

[moon23]

No. Tax the fuck out of high profits.

Great the mass unemployement that would follow as companies and buisness move their operations to countries overseas where there was a lower taxation would be fantastic.

Then people would really be starving with no roof over their head.

 

[butchersapron]

You need to distinguish between a universal Identity document for suvillance purposes and a docuement that is a certificate or permit for work purposes. Giving people a permit to work in certain areas where they are needed is not a pass system and does not require border police. I can't belive you are actually beliving what Cameron said in the debate about the requirements for internal police checking passes.

Remember being angrily and nosily against ID cards for overseas students before you tuned into a massive freak? Well guess what, this scheme you're defending today is that scheme plus, it's that souped up with border police and with restrictions on where people can travel.

 

[moon23]

can you recommend anywhere in 2010 that actually treats it's workers well??

My local green grocer.

 

[cesare]

Great the mass unemployement that would follow as companies and buisness move their operations to countries overseas where there was a lower taxation would be fantastic.

Then people would really be starving with no roof over their head.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Great the mass unemployement that would follow as companies and buisness move their operations to countries overseas where there was a lower taxation would be fantastic.

Then people would really be starving with no roof over their head.

Reward the rich and threaten the poor; you'll go far moon23.

Louis MacNeice

 

[moon23]

Remember being angrily and nosily against ID cards for overseas students before you tuned into a massive freak? Well guess what, this scheme you're defending today is that scheme plus, it's that souped up with border police and with restrictions on where people can travel.

I've seen nothing to suggest restrictions on where people can travel or that it would require the same biometric ID card type of system. If it did then i'd have issues about it and would be campaiging against it as a policy within the party.

 

[moon23]

Reward the rich and threaten the poor; you'll go far moon23.

Louis MacNeice

High taxation on profits threatens the poor as it drives economic activity out of the UK. Profit's in the UK are re-invested into new economic activity that generates more jobs for people.

All the time people have the free choice to purchase products from operations that treat their workers better, if someone wants to buy free-trade or from a company that looks after their workers better like John Lewis then they can do.

The Quakers industries flourised with an ethical model of free-trade and capitalism, i'd hope for a resurgance of such models.

 

[butchersapron]

I've seen nothing to suggest restrictions on where people can travel or that it would require the same biometric ID card type of system. If it did then i'd have issues about it and would be campaiging against it as a policy within the party.

Oh right, it's only really pass law if its done biometrically. Otherwise fine go ahead. Don't you understand that you can't pose a a civil libertarian whilst supporting an unprecedented on the civil liberties of others/ You have forfeited that right. I know that you think you can because you're a politician now - there is a great defender of civil liberties (for some) who springs to mind when reading your libertarian trajectory drivel - David Davies, but without the gravtias, or maybe Alan Duncan.

 

[Blagsta]

People gain access to resources which are not readily available through trade and work. If someone has a lot of resources it becomes in their economic interests to trade them with other people. Relying on a state bureaucracy for the distribution is inefficient.

I still think you need a social welfare safety net, and that the market does not thrive when it comes to providing infrastructure but generally i’ve become a liberal and see the merits of free-markets in the supply and trade of most goods and resources.

You're not even following your own argument. You said that "freedom" is worth it even if it means poverty and unemployment. I'm asking you what good is this sort of freedom. It's the freedom to starve or be forced into crap training schemes and free labour for businesses. It's all very well arguing for negative freedoms, but we also need positive freedoms - freedoms to eat, have dignity, look after families etc.

You say that people flourish when left alone - yes, but you're looking at only half the picture. In a system where the minority of people control the majority of the resources, most people don't have access to trade and work - especially when they're unemployed due to your trading their access to resources for "freedom". Your argument is pure libertarian free market bull. Generally the preserve of Thatcherites and posh teenagers.

 

[trevhagl]

My local green grocer.

is that who you work for?

 

[Blagsta]

I know

but you do

 

[Blagsta]

If people want to shop at Tesco and demand a low cost for everything then you are going to need cheap labour.

Spoken like a true tory.