Did You Vote LibDem?

[Blagsta]

Most of this board is living in some fantasy world where they think Labour wouldn't have made exactly the same cuts, the economy is messed up, comprehensive spending reviews across Whitehall were already on hold.

Cuts were already being made in the University sector with Jobs going at places Like Leeds and Sussex, jobs had allready gone at car factories and steel works all under a Labour govenrment. Labour were not some great protector of the workers against the market, they were fully onboard with market liberalism that thanks to globalisation is entrenced in our society. The choice was between three parties with economically liberal polices, and i'd rather support one that was also socially liberal rather than an authortarian one that kept trying to controll how people should live their lives.

I don’t think it’s a good thing that anyone losses their jobs, as i’ve said in this thread i’m soon going to be unemployed and it’s a worry to me too. The reality of the situation is though it would have been lot worse if there hadn’t been a coalition, the country plunged into the economic chaos of another election, more jobs lost. Then a Tory majority re-elected as Labour and the Lib Dem’s war chest was empty.

There are a lot of down sides to any administration with Tories in it, but this is the type of coalition politics we would have under PR in action, it’s about a mature compromise.
On the plus side we will get some of our civil liberties back, and that’s something to be pleased about.

It's all gone over your head.

 

[_angel_]

The tory party will control how people live their lives though, very much so. Because they're "only" the poor and the sick it won't matter to anyone.

 

[danny la rouge]

Most of this board is living in some fantasy world where they think Labour [...]

Did you miss the bit where people keep telling you they don't support Labour?

 

[_angel_]

Did you miss the bit where people keep telling you they don't support Labour?

Yep. A lot of tories seem incapable of following that one for some reason.

 

[moon23]

You can do better than that.

Just pointing out with my hyperbole example that sometimes freedom from, can mean freedom from regimes capable of inflicting mass suffering on a level we can't even comprehend. It’s not as simple as saying all negative freedom (freedom from) results in a situation of economic poverty and starvation. People are generally capable in most situations to not only look after themselves but trade and flourish without intervention.

Even the Conservative party is still to some extent socially liberal, and does not argue for the destruction of the welfare state.

Now I know that people fall through the net Blagsta, and know you work with those people (which is fantastic work you do) but those people were falling through the net under a Labour administration as well. We need to find ways to prevent that happening, as the previous strategy wasn’t working.

 

[moon23]

Did you miss the bit where people keep telling you they don't support Labour?

That's sensible of them, I assume we are talking about what the realistic alternatives are though so use Labour as my main comparison

 

[moon23]

Anyway I have to head off, time to do some voluntary case work for my local Lib Dem MP

 

[_angel_]

Just pointing out with my hyperbole example that sometimes freedom from, can mean freedom from regimes capable of inflicting mass suffering on a level we can't even comprehend. It’s not as simple as saying all negative freedom (freedom from) results in a situation of economic poverty and starvation. People are generally capable in most situations to not only look after themselves but trade and flourish without intervention.

Even the Conservative party is still to some extent socially liberal, and does not argue for the destruction of the welfare state.

Now I know that people fall through the net Blagsta, and know you work with those people (which is fantastic work you do) but those people were falling through the net under a Labour administration as well. We need to find ways to prevent that happening, as the previous strategy wasn’t working.

I'm afraid it does argue for the destruction of the welfare state, that speech Cameron gave on becoming PM was pretty clear, even if it was codified.
Of course, Labour have made this situation easy for them by beginning the work of kicking the sick and vulnerable, it doesn't mean the Tories aren't going to now have to dream up more ways of doing worse though. That's their reason to exist more or less.

 

[Blagsta]

Just pointing out with my hyperbole example that sometimes freedom from, can mean freedom from regimes capable of inflicting mass suffering on a level we can't even comprehend. It’s not as simple as saying all negative freedom (freedom from) results in a situation of economic poverty and starvation. People are generally capable in most situations to not only look after themselves but trade and flourish without intervention.

Even the Conservative party is still to some extent socially liberal, and does not argue for the destruction of the welfare state.

Now I know that people fall through the net Blagsta, and know you work with those people (which is fantastic work you do) but those people were falling through the net under a Labour administration as well. We need to find ways to prevent that happening, as the previous strategy wasn’t working.

This is rubbish. You're arguing for an abstract freedom that is more important (to you) than having a roof over your head and feeding your family. What shit is that?

 

[danny la rouge]

We need to find ways to prevent that happening, as the previous strategy wasn’t working.

And the current strategy of propping up the Tories won't help either. See what's being said here?

 

[Blagsta]

Moon23, you appear to have been hanging out too much with your Libertarian Party chums and uncritically swallowing Friedman and Hayek.

 

[danny la rouge]

Anyway I have to head off, time to do some voluntary case work for my local Lib Dem MP

Maybe s/he'll teach you to use semicolons; s/he certainly won't teach you about "fairness".

 

[trevhagl]

Just pointing out with my hyperbole example that sometimes freedom from, can mean freedom from regimes capable of inflicting mass suffering on a level we can't even comprehend. It’s not as simple as saying all negative freedom (freedom from) results in a situation of economic poverty and starvation. People are generally capable in most situations to not only look after themselves but trade and flourish without intervention.

Even the Conservative party is still to some extent socially liberal, and does not argue for the destruction of the welfare state.

Now I know that people fall through the net Blagsta, and know you work with those people (which is fantastic work you do) but those people were falling through the net under a Labour administration as well. We need to find ways to prevent that happening, as the previous strategy wasn’t working.

doesn't argue for the destruction of the welfare state????? Eh????

 

[Blagsta]

btw, people can only "trade and flourish" if they have access to resources. This is what you consistently ignore - access to resources, i.e. class.

 

[danny la rouge]

btw, people can only "trade and flourish" if they have access to resources. This is what you consistently ignore - access to resources, i.e. class.

It's the deserving poor and the undeserving poor all over again. People who aren't trading and flourishing only have themselves to blame. Ignoring totally how trading and flourishing occurs.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Moon23, you appear to have been hanging out too much with your Libertarian Party chums and uncritically swallowing Friedman and Hayek.

Anyone got a picture of those handsome fellas?

 

[danny la rouge]

Anyone got a picture of those handsome fellas?

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

I meant the Libertarian Party

 

[danny la rouge]

I meant the Libertarian Party

So did I.

 

[butchersapron]

Anyway I have to head off, time to do some voluntary case work for my local Lib Dem MP

Networking.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Networking.

Yep, Moon23 will be an activist for a year, followed by a councillor, followed by a PPC though probably not an actual MP unless they have defected to the Tories by then as the Liberals will be gone...

 

[trevhagl]

is it just me or in 5 years time will Clegg look like Jim Davidson?


(and probably have the same beliefs by then)

 

[danny la rouge]

They all look alike to me.

 

[Azrael]

This is rubbish. You're arguing for an abstract freedom that is more important (to you) than having a roof over your head and feeding your family. What shit is that?

Lock-up, ID cards, abstract. What shit is this? You a stoic? You got a jonesing for Paul of Tarsus? A jolly for Thomas Hobbes?

Course not. Over head. Complex is superior. Gnosticism, fucking gnosticism.

that is not what was said. Freedom to starve is a criticism leveled at Objectevist political philosophy (If we can dignify it by calling it that).

What's objectivism got to do with the Oxymorons? Is Clegg Rorschach? God help us all, etc etc.

 

[trevhagl]

They all look alike to me.

all we need is Miliband to stand in line

 

[danny la rouge]

all we need is Miliband to stand in line

Now you're getting it!

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Lock-up, ID cards, abstract. What shit is this? You a stoic? You got a jonesing for Paul of Tarsus? A jolly for Thomas Hobbes?

Course not. Over head. Complex is superior. Gnosticism, fucking gnosticism.

What's objectivism got to do with the Oxymorons? Is Clegg Rorschach? God help us all, etc etc.

You are clearly a lunatic, but this is one of the best posts I have ever read on the internet ever!

 

[Azrael]

Just matching terms to the poster.

 

[Blagsta]

Lock-up, ID cards, abstract. What shit is this? You a stoic? You got a jonesing for Paul of Tarsus? A jolly for Thomas Hobbes?

Course not. Over head. Complex is superior. Gnosticism, fucking gnosticism.

What's objectivism got to do with the Oxymorons? Is Clegg Rorschach? God help us all, etc etc.

Are you pissed?

 

[Azrael]

Not even in the American sense.

Just commenting on your habit of writing cryptic posts so you can call people obtuse, letting you massage your superiority complex down to something manageable. Must be like having hemorrhoids of the brainpan. My sympathies.