Deal between Labour and Lib Dems?

[free spirit]

Not supporting Labour loyalists here, but name one that's negotiating a deal to put Cameron in Number 10.

so, if you were in the lib dems position, you'd have instantly gone to labour with a negotiating position based on 'oh no we can't possibly work with the tories' would you?

what do you think you'd have got out of labour based on that crap negotiating strategy?

sfa is what.

if labour do adopt butch's pig headed position, then I guess we may end up with no option but to do something with the tory's, but that'd be at least as much labours fault as ours, and I just don't see it happening if labour make a reasonable offer.

 

[butchersapron]

No option, we were forced to

How low you've fallen you fucking tory pig.

 

[little_legs]

If i were a labour strategists i'd tell them to fuck off, let thgem tie themselves up with Cameron or stand apart - either way they're fucked when the next election comes because everyone now knows what they are, and it will come soon.

actually, this is neat. that's what labour wants in the long run anyway. it might better to back off for a little while and let others crash and burn in their folly.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

For info, STV means that you list the candidates in order from 1 to whatever. You can list as many or as few as you like, so you could order all six candidates 1-6 if there are six, or just go 1 or 1-2. Then you start eliminating candidates from the bottom up, transferring their vote to the next on the list of preferences until you get someone with over 50%.

It's a good system, imo.

 

[Sgt Howie]

if labour do adopt butch's pig headed position, then I guess we may end up with no option but to do something with the tory's, but that'd be at least as much labours fault as ours, and I just don't see it happening if labour make a reasonable offer.

I thought Brown already did - a better offer, in fact, than the one Cameron outlined in his press conference.

Face it, you've helped elect a Tory government.

 

[danny la rouge]

so, if you were in the lib dems position, you'd have instantly gone to labour with a negotiating position based on 'oh no we can't possibly work with the tories' would you?

No. And if this is Clegg's negotiating position, then all well and good. Except he cocked it up by making people think he said it would be 'immoral' to do a deal with Labour. I've been through all this on other threads, so I don't feel like repeating it here.

 

[where to]

smells like labour trying to start a rumour for the sake of relevance/ inciting the lib dem membership.

 

[FreddyB]

Fence walking scum fuck liberals

 

[Sgt Howie]

smells like labour trying to start a rumour for the sake of relevance/ inciting the lib dem membership.

They're probably hoping for some activist and councillor defections

 

[Open Sauce]

actually, this is neat. that's what labour wants in the long run anyway. it might better to back off for a little while and let others crash and burn in their folly.

Quite

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/may/07/polly-toynbee-labour-liberal-democrats

 

[free spirit]

I just answered your crap question - the implication of which is that your own party will prop up the tories, and you'll support them on this. Yet i'm the tory govt supporter. Odd logic that.

to be clear, I support the lib dems going into coalition with labour providing labour aren't taking the piss, and make a reasonable offer.

if labour do take the piss, then I suppose I'd have to grudgingly respect a decision to allow the tories into government in one way or another, but only if there was no prospect of a deal with labour. If Clegg proposed a deal with the tories when a decent deal with labour was on the table, I'd oppose it tooth and nail, though as I'm not even a party member, I'd not have any direct say in it. I'd definitely withdraw all support from them though, and I'm pretty sure a lot of others would be the same.

from what you've written, you seem to actively prefer a tory government to a labour / lib dem coalition, yet you have the audacity to call me a tory gvmt supporter.

 

[danny la rouge]

to be clear, I support the lib dems going into coalition with labour providing labour aren't taking the piss, and make a reasonable offer.

They've already been offered by Labour a great deal more of what is commonly believed to be their kind of thing. But we're told there's "personal chemistry" bettwen Dave and Clegg. But not between Clegg and Brown.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

personal chemistry is very important, speaking for the national interest.

 

[free spirit]

Fence walking scum fuck liberals

civil liberties destroying, neocon loving, war criminal scum...

fun this isn't it.

be a bit more constructive building bridges rather than burning them though if we're not going to end up with a tory government.

 

[FreddyB]

Fence walking scum fuck liberals. They'll come out with any old shite if they think you want to hear it

 

[free spirit]

No. And if this is Clegg's negotiating position, then all well and good. Except he cocked it up by making people think he said it would be 'immoral' to do a deal with Labour. I've been through all this on other threads, so I don't feel like repeating it here.

I think clegg fucked up badly by saying anything at all before the election, and reckon that alone cost the lib dems a lot of seats.

I honestly don't think that too much should be read into the exact wording of what he said tough, as he clearly tried to back pedal from it afterwards, and needs to take 75% of the party with him anyway, which I doubt he'd be able to do if there was a reasonable offer on the table from labour.

I acknowledge that I could well be wrong here, and would be much happier if we had a different leader doing the talking, but I hope I'm not.

 

[ericjarvis]

Fence walking scum fuck liberals. They'll come out with any old shite if they think you want to hear it

Don't knock it. It's worked as their sole manifesto for decades.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

As I understand it, the Tory plan is to plunge the country into recession while socialising the bad debts of the people in the City that they work for. Assuming a Lib-Con pact, how long could the Libs continue to support that policy?

Until the first riots break out?

 

[free spirit]

I thought Brown already did - a better offer, in fact, than the one Cameron outlined in his press conference.

Face it, you've helped elect a Tory government.

you're taking the piss if you seriously think that the lib dems should have just taken the first piss poor offer brown came up with.

also, how the fuck I've helped elect a tory government by campaigning to ensure that a good lib dem MP got re-elected rather than a tory one is beyond me. Anyone who voted labour in a lib/tory marginal though did help the tories get in.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

As I understand it, the Tory plan is to plunge the country into recession while socialising the bad debts of the people in the City that they work for. Assuming a Lib-Con pact, how long could the Libs continue to support that policy?

Until the first riots break out?

This is about what I fear – 1979-80 all over again. I for one sincerely hope this offer is true. We'd get rid of Brown, we'd have a labour govt that would have to keep its left wing backbenchers on side, we'd get rid of id cards, presumably, with a lib home sec, we'd have some concessions to the Celts...

It could be a result.

 

[little_legs]

Quite

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/may/07/polly-toynbee-labour-liberal-democrats

normally polly says crazy things, but this makes sense.

So, watch for the suppressed smiles on Labour faces today. Secretly, the opposition benches for a couple of years may feel the more comfortable place for Labour to sit out the coming storm.

 

[Sgt Howie]

also, how the fuck I've helped elect a tory government by campaigning to ensure that a good lib dem MP got re-elected rather than a tory one is beyond me.

Because he's about to support a Tory government. You might as well have not bothered.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Well, it's a question of how much stomach for Tory policies the Lib Dems actually have I guess. 6 billion is a lot to take out of public services and will surely have a strong negative impact that as partners in a coalition, they'll be blamed for. Similarly, it seems likely that the Tories have a deal with Rupert Murdoch to privatise the BBC because he dislikes competition. Will the Lib-Dems want that on their reputation? I suspect there's a point where they won't be able to hold their noses any longer.

If there isn't such a point and they go on holding their noses while the Torys do their thing, then the Lib-Dems will be so irredeemably tainted with Tory evil, that they'll be treated like Nazi collaborators next time around by anyone who cares about stuff like old ladies freezing to death, people dying of curable diseases on NHS waiting lists and poor people surviving by picking through garbage dumps.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Odd how one's perspective can change. Before the election, I was genuinely indifferent to whether cunt brown or cunt cameron was in charge. Now, faced with the reality of a tory govt, my position has changed.

 

[free spirit]

Fence walking scum fuck liberals. They'll come out with any old shite if they think you want to hear it

started any illegal wars lately?
how about locking up any asylum seekers children for long periods to appease the daily mail, or moving the country just that little bit further towards a police state, or been complicit in international kidnapping and torture of supposed terror suspects.

fucking lovely principles new labour have aren't they, but at least they aren't sitting on the fence eh...

 

[little_legs]

Odd how one's perspective can change. Before the election, I was genuinely indifferent to whether cunt brown or cunt cameron was in charge. Now, faced with the reality of a tory govt, my position has changed.

did you vote? if yes, may i ask who for?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Thing is, fs, the libs have done some very shitty things at local govt level.

Not defending New labour, btw, of course everything you say about them is true, and with balls on. I would add ending free higher education to the list.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

did you vote? if yes, may i ask who for?

No.

 

[lopsidedbunny]

To further the comments I made.

STV = single transferable vote. = cr*p = PR the way forward. For those in London with the London Mayor will know about this. You are given two votes, if the gap between your first of the two votes aren't wide enough to satisfy the outcome results. Your second choice comes forward but it can't be the same choice as you made in the first vote. So for example if you voted say the same guy/gurl twice in your first vote and as in your second vote. Your second round vote won't count. I am a little bit rusty I believe your second vote is then added to the first results in a strange process of elimination rounds. It’s pretty much the same thing as first pass the post system with a gimmicky outcome.

STV laughable...

This is design to confuse you for who you want to win, do you put your preferable choice forward for the first vote or the second vote?

Trust me it does make a differences due to the strange elimination rounds you can't vote both rounds. Remember the first set of votes may win this missing out on the opportunity to vote for the different political parties as you kept that vote for the second voting round. So in effect you never voted for the preferable party that you had in mind.

This voting system was designed by the labour party

 

[Sgt Howie]

To further the comments I made.

STV = single transferable vote. = cr*p = PR the way forward. For those in London with the London Mayor will know about this. You are given two votes, if the gap between your first of the two votes aren't wide enough to satisfy the outcome results. Your second choice comes forward but it can't be the same choice as you made in the first vote. So for example if you voted say the same guy/gurl twice in your first vote and as in your second vote. Your second round vote won't count. I am a little bit rusty I believe your second vote is then added to the first results in a strange process of elimination rounds. It’s pretty much the same thing as first pass the post system with a gimmicky outcome.

STV laughable...

This is design to confuse you for who you want to win, do you put your preferable choice forward for the first vote or the second vote?

That's not STV you're talking about, it's AV.