Deal between Labour and Lib Dems?

[trevhagl]

My local Labour mp, who lost to the Tories this time, was a spineless new labour weasel. The cunt voted for Iraq, tuition fees, id cards, detention without charge, the lot. I felt genuinely disenfranchised when I saw the list. I do not regret abstaining this time. Next time, we'll see.

What disgusts me about this type of MP is that you know full well that they don't actually agree with most of it. They have lost their humanity.

just careerist twats basically. People doing it for the PAY not to change things for the better

 

[Ms T]

If i were a labour strategists i'd tell them to fuck off, let thgem tie themselves up with Cameron or stand apart - either way they're fucked when the next election comes because everyone now knows what they are, and it will come soon.

I kind of agree with this. I think Labour should now be playing the long game - they need to step back and regroup, elect a new leader and allow the Liberal Democrats to destroy themselves as a party. If the Liberals do a deal with the Tories, they may be able to mitigate the worst of Conservative policy, which would be a bonus.

 

[magneze]

• An arrangement with the Tories which does not deliver electoral reform but does produce a stable government committed to introducing some Lib Dem priorities. The fear many Lib Dems have is that they would be tainted by association with the Tories who could call a snap election at a moment's notice.

• A coalition with Labour with seats in cabinet, a pledge to change the voting system and a promise that Gordon brown will not be around for ever. The fear here is that they will be harmed by the allegation that they have created a "coalition of the losers" in an unstable coalition which could collapse long before it could deliver electoral reform.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/nickrobinson/2010/05/labour_in_play.html

The two options open to the LibDems are effectively out now. Surely an answer is forthcoming soon.

 

[Open Sauce]

you're taking the piss if you seriously think that the lib dems should have just taken the first piss poor offer brown came up with.

also, how the fuck I've helped elect a tory government by campaigning to ensure that a good lib dem MP got re-elected rather than a tory one is beyond me. Anyone who voted labour in a lib/tory marginal though did help the tories get in.

Who did your local lib dem MP vote for in the leadership contest?

 

[danny la rouge]

I can reveal that the Liberal Democrat negotiating team met over the weekend not just with the Tories but, in secret, with a team from Labour consisting of Peter Mandelson, Ed Miliband, Ed Balls and Andrew Adonis, says the BBC's political editor Nick Robinson. So far, I can get no official comment from either party about what was discussed.

According to Nick Robinson. (Spit).

 

[FreddyB]

fence walking scum fuck liberals

 

[fakeplasticgirl]

what's with all the liberal hate here?!

they're better than bloody 'new' labour...

 

[treelover]

NL politicians such as Murphy and Flint, Hoon and Blunkett are some of the most obnoxious people on the planet

 

[marty21]

can't see a libdem/labour deal, it's going to be some form of co-operation between the Tories and the Lib Dems, or a Tory Minority government, a Lib Dem/Labour/rainbow alliance coalition would just be too fragile, the Tories would vote against everything and would justifiably be pissed off if they are denied a shot at governing

 

[fakeplasticgirl]

NL politicians such as Murphy

and i had to vote for him

*wants PR, wants PR*

 

[butchersapron]

can't see a libdem/labour deal, it's going to be some form of co-operation between the Tories and the Lib Dems, or a Tory Minority government, a Lib Dem/Labour/rainbow alliance coalition would just be too fragile, the Tories would vote against everything and would justifiably be pissed off if they are denied a shot at governing

You can see the narrative being constructed by the guilty here - we're there to stop them, we're propping them up in order rein them in. Follow the logic and you get demands for participation in Thatcher's govt to rein her in.

It's like joining in with someone preparing to give someone else a good kicking on th grounds that you might be able to sort of get in the way a bit and he'll give you a fiver. Weasels and ratfuckers.

 

[marty21]

You can see the narrative being constructed by the guilty here - we're there to stop them, we're propping them up in order rein them in. Follow the logic and you get demands for participation in Thatcher's govt to rein her in.

It's like joining in with someone preparing to give someone else a good kicking on th grounds that you might be able to sort of get in the way a bit and he'll give you a fiver.

the tories will be reined in, it would be a very fragile coalition if they tried tried it on with the libdems and tried to pass something they were totally opposed to , plus all those Tories have been starved of all the ministerial privileges for 13 years, they'll not want to give them up in a hurry

 

[butchersapron]

Or, why would the lib-dems wish to rein them in at all? They share pretty much the same neo-liberal agenda - any substantial differences have been shown to be PR moves by the readiness with which they've jumped into bed with them. This way they can further their extremist agenda and blame the worst effects on the tories.

 

[marty21]

Or, why would the lib-dems wish to rein them in at all? They share pretty much the same neo-liberal agenda - any substantial differences have been shown to be PR moves by the readiness with which they've jumped into bed with them. This way they can further their extremist agenda and blame the worst effects on the tories.

true, but the Libdems will still get the blame come election time, and election which will still be FPTP

 

[butchersapron]

true, but the Libdems will still get the blame come election time, and election which will still be FPTP

Yes, it only serves to highlight their tactical idiocy as well as their spineless nature.

 

[Ms T]

Or, why would the lib-dems wish to rein them in at all? They share pretty much the same neo-liberal agenda - any substantial differences have been shown to be PR moves by the readiness with which they've jumped into bed with them. This way they can further their extremist agenda and blame the worst effects on the tories.

I'm no Lib Dem, but I don't think this is entirely fair. A Lib/Con coalition wouldn't be worthless if the tories are forced top get rid of the inheritance tax plan and the tax breaks for married couples, for example, or if the Lib Dems get their way on raising the tax threshold to £10,000 to benefit the low paid.

 

[marty21]

the best deal for the LibDems would be to allow a minority Tory government, so vote that one through, and then take each vote as it comes, that way, they aren' tainted by the Tories, and did not prop up a discredited Labour administration, a deal with either just fucks them up at the next election

 

[frogwoman]

Good post marty although I'm also quite worried about a tory government, minority or not!

btw what's happening at the moment with it all?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

OH GOD will they not just GET ON WITH IT

It's like a pair of serial killers deliberately leaving you trapped in the pit while they pretend to negotiate over the exact scalpels and pliers they're going to use.

 

[butchersapron]

I'm no Lib Dem, but I don't think this is entirely fair. A Lib/Con coalition wouldn't be worthless if the tories are forced top get rid of the inheritance tax plan and the tax breaks for married couples, for example, or if the Lib Dems get their way on raising the tax threshold to £10,000 to benefit the low paid.

Well, let's follow this logic then - should labour have demanded palces in Thatcher's govt in the 80s for a few crumbs here and there on the understanding that they'd then left the real damaging attacks go ahead unhindered? Or not even unhindered - supported. I don''t think a few crumbs like that are worth very much when balanced against the really bad stuff it will make sure does happen.

 

[Ms T]

Well, let's follow this logic then - should labour have demanded palces in Thatcher's govt in the 80s for a few crumbs here and there on the understanding that they'd then left the real damaging attacks go ahead unhindered? Or not even unhindered - supported. I don''t think a few crumbs like that are worth very much when balanced against the really bad stuff it will make sure does happen.

Where have I said it's ideal?

 

[butchersapron]

Good post marty although I'm also quite worried about a tory government, minority or not!

btw what's happening at the moment with it all?

The lib-dem MPsare meeting right now, the Tory MPs early this evening. The 'negotiations' between the whig-tories and the whigs are continuing with most media reporting that they have an outline agreement on which they're just filling in the blanks. Expected to be a done deal later tonight.

 

[butchersapron]

Where have I said it's ideal?

It's not only not ideal, it's actually worse than other options on the table. Propping up the tories is not compulsory.

 

[Ms T]

It's not only not ideal, it's actually worse than other options on the table. Propping up the tories is not compulsory.

Apart from as you say on another thread, it will probably destroy the Lib Dems for a while. I thought you would be in favour of that.

 

[frogwoman]

Oh for fucks sake. Then will we have another five years of whig-tories till the next election, or is there a likelihood it will collapse?

 

[butchersapron]

Apart from as you say on another thread, it will probably destroy the Lib Dems for a while. I thought you would be in favour of that.

There's other better ways of that happening - libs support no one-->shambles of tory minority govt --> GE-->libs in trouble.

 

[killer b]

can't see it lasting 5 years - the tories would rather try for an outright majority as soon as the opinion polls suggest they can. who knows though? they may find the arrangement suits everyone...

 

[Combustible]

I can't see it lasting 5 years if it happens. The Tories will presumably want to string the liberals along until they think they can win a majority. With any luck the Con/Lib government will go through an unpopular patch which could cause unrest within the Lib Dems and the whole thing would fall apart and they'll be tied to the mess.

 

[danny la rouge]

I can't see it lasting 5 years if it happens.

The tensions will come over Cabinet posts, rather than policy.

 

[frogwoman]

So we not going to have another election this year then?