David Icke lecture @ Wembley Arena, October 2012

[ViolentPanda]

I think it's so they don't get nicked for indecent exposure or whatever. They cover their real nipples with fake ones lol

And to prevent sunburnt nips. Horribly painful.

 

[ViolentPanda]

First I've heard of it! To be honest, it sounds like a load of nonsense. Having googled it seems Icke mentions it as a theory from Desborough chap. File under 'one of many pretty out there theories that Icke mentions'. It totally depends what you wish to read into it if you want to say it's racist though. Wouldn't it seem worse the other way around?

That's kind of a good point.
Thing is, when we converse with someone, or when we write a post, an article or even a book, we both consciously and unconsciously code something of ourselves into it, as well as incorporating our position vis-a-vis "power" and our political/ideological stance (standard Bakhtinian discourse analysis).
Deconstruct Icke's writings as neutrally as possible and you're still likely to arrive at the conclusion that his various flights of terminological fancy denote, in some cases, anti-Semitism.

Rather than concentrating on adding between the lines, why not pay attention to simply what Icke says and indeed him denouncing racism? Because he does that very eloquently. Why completely ignore him on that topic?

One doesn't need to add to what he's written, one merely needs to analyse it.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Sounds like Michael Bradley's 'The Iceman Inheritance'. Bradley has been crowing about the recent suggestions of 1-4% introgression of Neanderthal genes into non-African populations as proof of what he's been saying for years - except the proportion's much greater and scientists are covering this up because they're cowards and liars etc etc.

He's also been channelling some of the ideas of hardcore anti-semite Kevin Macdonald in a more recent book titled 'Chosen People of the Caucasus'.

Obviously, he doesn't realise that the chosen people of the Caucasus were actually the Kavkazi.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

like this?

not sure what the message is, but there must be one, right?

I know you are joking but. . .
This is another example of cherry picking, the kind of thing icke does with his 'research'. I saw a vid not long ago that pointed out many many september 11 appearances in films.
What it didn't do is point out all the other dates that have ever appeared in a film or tv show that aren't september the 11th.
One date that leaps out at me is my birthday. I come across some event or other, or mention of it quite often, mainly because it does 'leap out' at me. In fact before christmas I was working in an office where the pass code was my year and date of birth. Freaky, but not even as freaky as you lottery numbers coming up and that happens every week.

 

[Spud Murfy]

Obviously, he doesn't realise that the chosen people of the Caucasus were actually the Kavkazi.

I didn't know about the Kavkazi. Always find such histories really fascinating to learn about. Only recently discovered that there are still around 50,000 Gnostics living in Egypt!

 

[ViolentPanda]

I didn't know about the Kavkazi. Always find such histories really fascinating to learn about. Only recently discovered that there are still around 50,000 Gnostics living in Egypt!

I did some research about odd Jewish offshoots back in the '90s, which is how I learned about them and the Subbotniks.

 

[rekil]

beyond the lizards.

Good name for a book that. Beyond The Lizards reveals the most terrible secret in history - that the reptiloid jews are mere puppets of an even nastier race of beings, I dunno, invisible fishmen or something, from Kepler 22b or thereabouts.

 

[frogwoman]

i'm not racist, those black people have such a great sense of rhythm.

 

[Stigmata]

Presumably this global reptilian conspiracy is the reason that reptilian aliens are always portrayed so positively in science fiction media.

 

[Jazzz]

Here you are in step with faux pas (unsurprisingly) and their appreciation that saying apparently positive things about a racially defined group couldn't be derogatory; you're just as wrong as they were. I tried to get faux pas to think this through, but they declined the offer. Perhaps you'll be more forthcoming in reconsidering your position.

As an example for you to think about consider the opinion expressed by some psychiatrists that 'West Indians' disproportionately didn't suffer from depression in comparison to their white counterparts (Fernando 1988 Race and Culture in Psychiatry). While such 'immunity' might be thought of as a positive quality, the explanation proffered and it's implications pointed in exactly the opposite direction.

The explanation provided was that because of a 'cultural characteristic' whereby Afro-Caribbeans externalised their problems, blaming outside agencies in a 'child like' manner (Fernando 1988), they were protected from introspective and intellectual depression, 'the inwardly directed disturbance of a finely tunes mechanism' (Littlewood and Lipsedge 1989 Aliens and Alienists - how appropriate!).

Ill let you work through the implications. Keep in mind that that psychiatrists weren't saying that Afro-Caribbeans didn't exhibit mental distress; just that it wasn't evidence of depression.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

Let's be a bit clearer. I think it's fairly ludicrous to describe whether one originates from um, Mars as "positive" or "negative".

If I asked whether it is a positive or negative whether one's ancestry is rooted in America, Africa or Australia, surely you would say no? I would certainly hope so. So what is wrong with Mars? Or Earth?

The reason I said "would it not seem worse the other way around?" is that for those who are territorial about race issues, Mars is where the martians have to be sent back to. There's no value judgment - well not from me anyway.

In your example there is nothing racist about the observation about depression while quite possibly the explanation given is: I am sure I could suggest alternative ones based on vaccination status or perhaps vitamin D depending on the study details. Looks like it's not the case anymore and the Afro-Carribean community has high rates of depression in the UK http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/180/6/475

 

[Jazzz]

"I love black people, me. I really envy their sense of rhythm. It's like they're more in tune with nature..."

Jazzz, really, seriously, get a fucking grip with this racist shit.

The statement "black people have a good sense of rhythm" is not implied by "white people are from Mars". *

As any fule no, Martians can swing harder than anyone.

 

[Lock&Light]

The statement "black people have a good sense of rhythm" is not implied by "white people are from Mars".

Black people, and white people and every colour of people come from Africa.

 

[butchersapron]

The statement "black people have a good sense of rhythm" is not implied by "white people are from Mars". *

As any fule no, Martians can swing harder than anyone.

So you're just going to ignore the implications of the claim and it's centrality to the theories of the bloke that you're bigging up? Wilf was right - people like you have a bigger commitment to the conspiracy theories than you do to anti-racism. It's why you can claim around the time of your holocaust denting mate being outed that holocaust denial isn't necessarily anti-semitic.

 

[Casually Red]

i'm not racist, those black people have such a great sense of rhythm.

Neil Kinnock at your cousins wedding has got more rythm than this boyo

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The statement "black people have a good sense of rhythm" is not implied by "white people are from Mars". *

As any fule no, Martians can swing harder than anyone.

The idea is ludicrous, of course, but the fact that he's made up this ludicrous idea and not some other is telling. I'm disappointed that you don't see it. His rubbish mind has made up a story to show how white people are different, how they are not 'in tune' with Earth like black people and plants and animals are.

This is reminiscent of the horror certain people felt at the idea that humans evolved from other animals, but taken one step further - a story made up to explain how white people aren't part of the same species as other races. It's hateful, whether or not Icke himself knows it is hateful. If he is genuine with all this nonsense, I can guarantee you that he will have precious little insight into himself or his motives.

 

[Jazzz]

The idea is ludicrous, of course, but the fact that he's made up this ludicrous idea and not some other is telling. I'm disappointed that you don't see it. His rubbish mind has made up a story to show how white people are different, how they are not 'in tune' with Earth like black people and plants and animals are.

So you think this idea is the only ludicrous idea Icke has entertained? Do you know how many millions of words he has written? As I've said, I've never even heard this one and I've heard him give two eight-hour lectures.

This is reminiscent of the horror certain people felt at the idea that humans evolved from other animals, but taken one step further - a story made up to explain how white people aren't part of the same species as other races. It's hateful, whether or not Icke himself knows it is hateful. If he is genuine with all this nonsense, I can guarantee you that he will have precious little insight into himself or his motives.

So to you, it matters very much where someone comes from and what the origins of their DNA are?

 

[frogwoman]

I can guarantee you that he will have precious little insight into himself or his motives.

I think he will.

 

[frogwoman]

So you think this idea is the only ludicrous idea Icke has entertained?

So to you, it matters very much where someone comes from and what the origins of their DNA are?

of course not - buy why does it matter to icke?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I think he will.

Not if he's genuine. And I have no reason to doubt that he's genuine. People with psychosis rarely have much insight into their condition, if any.

 

[frogwoman]

Not if he's genuine. And I have no reason to doubt that he's genuine. People with psychosis rarely have much insight into their condition, if any.

he can be genuine and be using some of this shit metaphorically. dog whistle type stuff.crazy enough to make people think he's an idiot but not so delusional that you cant read between the lines.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Maybe. TBH I think Icke is really quite delusional, though.

It's possible to be deluded and suffering from a form of psychosis that causes you to experience very strange perceptions and also - mostly - to be able to function day-to-day.

 

[Blagsta]

Maybe. TBH I think Icke is really quite delusional, though.

I think he started off as genuinely having a psychotic break and trying to make sense of it. Then he realised how much money he could make out of exploiting it.

 

[frogwoman]

also i don't think that someone who literally believes all of this shit would be functional enough to pull in millions of pounds and attract crowds of thousands to his speaking tours.

 

[butchersapron]

So you think this idea is the only ludicrous idea Icke has entertained?

So what other ludicrous ideas has Icke entertained? Can you list some of them?

 

[Lock&Light]

So to you, it matters very much where someone comes from and what the origins of their DNA are?

It should matter to all humanity that there are fools who think that there is any difference in the origin of people's DNA. To suggest that there is the most blatent form of racism.

 

[frogwoman]

Maybe. TBH I think Icke is really quite delusional, though.

It's possible to be deluded and suffering from a form of psychosis that causes you to experience very strange perceptions and also - mostly - to be able to function day-to-day.

he doesn't just function day to day though. very few of us on here could dream of the type of lifestyle he has and the success he's had in his "career" and most of us i'm assuming don't suffer from psychotic delusions.

what evidence has icke shown in the past few years (i don't mean initially) of being seriously mentally ill?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

he doesn't just function day to day though. very few of us on here could dream of the type of lifestyle he has and the success he's had in his "career" and most of us i'm assuming don't suffer from psychotic delusions.

what evidence has icke shown in the past few years (i don't mean initially) of being seriously mentally ill?

There are different kinds of 'ill'. I'm not going to go into details, but someone very close to me has been suffering from psychotic delusions about all kinds of things for many years and has built up an extremely disturbing set of beliefs in trying to make sense of it. She holds down her job just fine, most of the time, and you'd never guess if you met her - as long as she stayed away from certain subjects.

Blagsta may be right that the psychotic breakdown is over, but that kind of experience can leave very deeply held beliefs, particularly if he himself interpreted his breakdown as something else, and if he's experiencing ongoing visions or voices that reinforce those beliefs, he could well be quite high-functioning in many ways and still be 'ill'.

 

[Jazzz]

It should matter to all humanity that there are fools who think that there is any difference in the origin of people's DNA. To suggest that there is the most blatent form of racism.

Absurd nonsense. You can get your DNA tested to see where it came from, e.g. http://www.gtldna.com/ancestral-origins-dna-ancestry.html

 

[Jazzz]

So what other ludicrous ideas has Icke entertained? Can you list some of them?

I'm surprised if you need my help with that one mate.

 

[butchersapron]

Absurd nonsense. You can get your DNA tested to see where it came from, e.g. http://www.gtldna.com/ancestral-origins-dna-ancestry.html

Does this establish if it's from mars? All DNA comes from somewhere. The motivation to claim that one 'races' DNA comes from another planet also comes from somewhere - a complex network of racist assumptions.