David Davis resigns as MP over civil liberties

[butchersapron]

LOLZ indeed - because this was the most important thing, right?

In terms of deciding whether to support David Davis and in weighing his motivations and the potential damages or advantage of doing so, then yes, being able to see what he was up to is actually pretty bloody important - as is being able to see where certain people went wrong and why. You and the other one are displaying the traits that you appear to be decrying - refusing to believe that people who offered an alternative reading were the ones who were proven correct because of who they are. How could people like them ever possibly be right Off you both go then, fall for the next trick as well and when you end up proven wrong just blame those who pointed out the dirty great hole you were jumping into.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

LOLZ indeed - because this was the most important thing, right?



Cynical aloofness for the win again! GO URBAN!




There are? Is this like some kind of mail-esque silent majority that like a sleeping bear is just waiting to be roused?

I'll believe it when I see it.

It's not cynicism to point out the simple mindedness of others...

 

[The Black Hand]

In terms of deciding whether to support David Davis and in weighing his motivations and the potential damages or advantage of doing so, then yes, being able to see what he was up to is actually pretty bloody important - as is being able to see where certain people went wrong and why. You and the other one are displaying the traits that you appear to be decrying - refusing to believe that people who offered an alternative reading were the ones who were proven correct because of who they are. How could people like them ever possibly be right Off you both go then, fall for the next trick as well and when you end up proven wrong just blame those who pointed out the dirty great hole you were jumping into.

Just goes to show you're off the plot again. It was never about supporting David Davies - it was about supporting civil liberties...

 

[butchersapron]

You've not read the thread nor the arguments made by me and others therein, as is now perfectly obvious from the above post.

 

[Dravinian]

Butchers, you claim you were proved 100% correct. On what? Did you even make a claim in this thread at all? All I remember is you going on and on about Voting Tory like it was the same as eating a baby.

You moaned about his voting record, the fact that he doesn't really care about civil liberties.

And we should care why? Why would his voting record make a difference to the public taking advantage of a publicity stunt and sending a message to Government and other politicians? Why does his past matter? Why do his opinions matter? It simply doesn't.

You never understood that, you were too blinkered by your hatred of the Tories, I absolutely hate the Tories I grew up with Thatcher and my hatred runs very deep. But I am not so blind as to shot myself in the foot rather then assist a Tory in something minor. You are apparently willing to sell civil liberties down the river rather then support a Tory.

And listen I know what you going to say, cause it is the only thing you have said in this thread, and despite it being the only thing you have said you felt the need to repeat it over and over again like we have not understood you. You are going to come back and claim that David Davis doesn't support Civil Liberties so how were you selling them down the river!!!

Quite amazingly missing the point of everything I have said to you, every single time I replied to your repetition.

I don't care about Davis, it was the protest that was going to support Civil Liberties...Davis was just like honey for the cameras. That you never understood, cause you couldn't stand back from your hatred for a mere second to think about it. The worst part is, even now, a month after the election when we gained nothing from a huge publicity stunt for civil liberties, when no one is even talking about 42 days anymore like it is a done deal.

You still want to claim you were proved 100% correct.

When I stated that you would be diluting the protest to minority groups and they would be dismissed as such, and then that is exactly what happened with 25 other candidates making the entire process a joke.

You still want to claim you were proved 100% correct.

Your lack of clear thought, even in hindsight is slightly disturbing.

 

[Dravinian]

You've not read the thread nor the arguments made by me and others therein, as is now perfectly obvious from the above post.

No its not butchers, it is YOU who have not understood.

You thought that the protest was supporting David Davis and you couldn't get past that. The protest was in support of Civil Liberties and Davis just happened to be a useful catalyst.

That you have NEVER understood, for some unknown reason, this piece of information seems incapable of penetrating your mind.

 

[butchersapron]

Amazing.

Truly amazing.

You actually did what attica did as well but halfway through the thread.

It's amazing how in 212 post of mine you never once managed to spot an argument from me either against your position or in favour of putting up a real pro-civil liberites argument.

Yet you managed to reply to my posts over and over.

And over

In this annoying way.

I would say this sepaks more of your own inability to recognise anything but your postion as being valid.

Yet others were quite able to see what my argument was.

And the subsequent long winded footstamping that inevitably follows when people disagree.

With you.

I could go on for hours.

Like this.

Padding my reply out.

Repeating myself.

 

[Dravinian]

Yes I did butchers, I saw you say "put up a real candidate"

and in reply I said

"Doing so will dilute the protest as few people all agree about every aspect of the laws on civil liberties. You will end up with one group against ID cards but for 24 days, one group against 24 Days but for ID cards...etc etc. and the protest will be dismissed as a minority greivance."

And lo.

26 people appeared on the ballot, the protest was diluted to the point of being pointless.

Then I pointed out I was 100% right in my view of what would happen, and you claimed you I was 100% wrong.

 

[butchersapron]

No its not butchers, it is YOU who have not understood.

You thought that the protest was supporting David Davis and you couldn't get past that. The protest was in support of Civil Liberties and Davis just happened to be a useful catalyst.

That you have NEVER understood, for some unknown reason, this piece of information seems incapable of penetrating your mind.

What protest?

The campaign to support an anti-civil libertieres candidate in the name of civil liberties did not appeal to me true. Nor did falling for a transparent political manouvere by a tory grab me that much either.

If you'd read the substantive part of the thread, i.e the bit before you appeared, well after the real arguments had been had and everyone was just repeating thsmelves, you would see why. And you'd see why i was proven right.

 

[Dravinian]

What protest?

The campaign to support an anti-civil libertieres candidate in the name of civil liberties did not appeal to me true. Nor did falling for a transparent political manouvere by a tory grab me that much either.

If you'd read the substantive part of the thread, i.e the bit before you appeared, well after the real arguments had been had and everyone was just repeating thsmelves, you would see why. And you'd see why i was proven right.

What that Davis is a cunt? Wow what a surprise.

You still not explained why we should care about David Davis' opinions on Civil Liberties. The man was a catalyst, do you understand what that means? Here let me give you the dictionary defintion, its quite fitting.

One that precipitates a process or event, especially without being involved in or changed by the consequences.

We didn't even need the Tosser, he was just great for the spotlight, it could have been Mr Blobby for all his opinions mattered.

But you never saw that, and I don't understand why not.

 

[butchersapron]

Yes I did butchers, I saw you say "put up a real candidate"

and in reply I said

"Doing so will dilute the protest as few people all agree about every aspect of the laws on civil liberties. You will end up with one group against ID cards but for 24 days, one group against 24 Days but for ID cards...etc etc. and the protest will be dismissed as a minority greivance."

And lo.

26 people appeared on the ballot, the protest was diluted to the point of being pointless.

Then I pointed out I was 100% right in my view of what would happen, and you claimed you I was 100% wrong.

Just take that one thing that i said (amogsts a whokle range of other points i made).

First off - i ask again. What protest?

Secondly, what difference do you think the greens standing made? Not a single bit. Your hysterical ranting argument about dilution of the message is meaningless. The result was exactly the same as if they green had not stood. The tory got back in but a real civil liberties canddiate managed to pick up a few thousand votes and attempt to get across the message that civil liberties are not something that would be best preserved by those who have attacked and supported attacks on them - people like Davis and the tory party.

You tell me what difference it wouyld have made if the green had not stood? YOu tell me what difference a slightkly larger Davis majority would have made. I think it would have made no difference.

I think Davis's action since the election have borne out that reading and the depth of just how wroing you were. Nothing has springboarded off the back of his campaign and nothing was ever going to becasue it was all about putting the govt in an awkward postion (and they didn't even mange to do that right). A few thousand votes from the greens would not have changed this central fact one iota. You tied a putative pro-civil liberites campaign to the careerism of an anti0-cilvil liberties politician and wonder why nothing happened? Instead you lash out at those who saw your idiocy from the very start.

The utter naivity is what i find annoying, well that naivity allied with the agressive chest prodding.

 

[butchersapron]

What that Davis is a cunt? Wow what a surprise.

You still not explained why we should care about David Davis' opinions on Civil Liberties. The man was a catalyst, do you understand what that means? Here let me give you the dictionary defintion, its quite fitting.

One that precipitates a process or event, especially without being involved in or changed by the consequences.

We didn't even need the Tosser, he was just great for the spotlight, it could have been Mr Blobby for all his opinions mattered.

But you never saw that, and I don't understand why not.

You want to use Davis as a catylst for a pro-civlil liberties campaign but that his anti-civil liberties views don't matter? Truly you are a crackpot. Maybe having an anti-civil liberties politician spearheading a pro-civil liberties process might expalin just why your 'process' never got started. People aren't mugs to be tricked by people like you, or moved around on a board. The general public could see what this little stunt was all about, even if you were unable to.

And if the specfic catlyst for this process is so unimportant why have you been insisting so boringly and agressively that it must be Davis, that it can only be Davis, that anyone who opposed Davis was objectively anti-civil rights? Square that circle if you can please.

What you can't see and i don't know why, is that it was the election process itself that could have acted as that catlyst, that offered the opportunity, not the fucking candidate. It's so basic and simple a point, that i am truly lost as to how you and others have managed to miss it so spectacularly - in fact insisting on it even more strongly now when you've shown to be wrong.

 

[butchersapron]

...and don't waste your time writing the usual long post saying one thing over and over. I've had enough, not interested in the same old shit again. (Unless you come up with something different, new or original anyway)

 

[Dravinian]

It is funny, I point out that people like you will dilute the argument and thus make it meaningless. People then go on to do exactly that, and you claim that it proves no protest was going to work.

Nothing has springboarded off the back of his campaign and nothing was ever going to becasue it was all about putting the govt in an awkward postion

It also underlines the problem I have been trying to tell you from the Start.

No one was relying on David Davis. You keep talking about what is he doing now? Who the fuck cares, it wasn't about David Davis. It was about our civil liberties.

And YES it was about putting the Government in an uncomfortable position, and how uncomfortable do you think it might have got when 200,000 people descended on a 50,000 consituentcy to support an MP who stood for Civil Liberties?....even when they are a Tory cunt with a shit record!

Get it now?

As to what Protest, well to be honest, this was all written BEFORE the election, when there was time to mount such a protest by getting people from different groups to all come together under one banner.

That didn't happen. Hence no protest.

 

[exosculate]

There are? Is this like some kind of mail-esque silent majority that like a sleeping bear is just waiting to be roused?

I'll believe it when I see it.

On here they are relatively silent, because they cant be arsed arguing with the Jehovahtrots(copyright pending) again and again and again.

In real situations in the real world where it counts they speak more, but we are all overwhelmed by inane mainstream nonsense in the real world too I think, if we try and think!

 

[Darios]

People aren't mugs to be tricked by people like you, or moved around on a board. The general public could see what this little stunt was all about, even if you were unable to.

There you go again invoking that silent majority.

Whenever I saw you post "VOTE TORY" on this thread, there also seemed to be a subliminal "DO NOTHING" accompanying it.

 

[Darios]

On here they are relatively silent, because they cant be arsed arguing with the Jehovahtrots(copyright pending) again and again and again.

In real situations in the real world where it counts they speak more, but we are all overwhelmed by inane mainstream nonsense in the real world too I think, if we try and think!

Haha. Fair enough. I suppose there is reason to be more optimistic if that is the case, providing that these more open minded leftists are able to see what they have in common with others, such as many right-libertarians.

 

[The Black Hand]

There you go again invoking that silent majority.

Whenever I saw you post "VOTE TORY" on this thread, there also seemed to be a subliminal "DO NOTHING" accompanying it.

It's the story of his sad little loner life.

 

[The Black Hand]

You've not read the thread nor the arguments made by me and others therein, as is now perfectly obvious from the above post.

So? Can't remember, prob read bits, even lots of bits, but I can still see shite written by you.