David Davis resigns as MP over civil liberties

[littlebabyjesus]

What substantive points? all I've seen are ludicrous claims that the UK doesnt have a constitution and then some belated attempts to save face when confronted by the evidence that we do, in fact have a constitution

I would ask you to re-read every post by me and also by Brainaddict.

 

[marty21]

I don't think that Davis's age is a factor. At 65 or so at the time of the next election he would be well within the age range for UK Prime Ministers or even just senior ministers for the 20th Century. It is only the young upstart Blair who started the recent fashion for young politicians.

look at the stick menzies got - it's a young man's game, son

 

[Gmart]

What substantive points? all I've seen are ludicrous claims that the UK doesnt have a constitution and then some belated attempts to save face when confronted by the evidence that we do, in fact have a constitution

We have a hopscotch constitution, much of which is an agreement between the Lords/Landowners and the government, rather than the people as a whole and the government.

The proof is in the eating and in no other country would they be able to so easily get 42 days, the criminal justice act etc. You seem ignorant of this. Our constitution has good things but at the moment we are sleepwalking into autocracy, and claims that our system is not an archaic system in need of a service is just playing into the hands of those who are happy with this.

Do you feel that we aren't over legislated, and that our freedoms are safe?

Heck we couldn't even stop our MP's from voting for the (illegal) Iraq War!

 

[butchersapron]

I don't think that Davis's age is a factor. At 65 or so at the time of the next election he would be well within the age range for UK Prime Ministers or even just senior ministers for the 20th Century. It is only the young upstart Blair who started the recent fashion for young politicians.

He's too old right now - just look at what happend to ming. It's not 1951 or 1927.

 

[untethered]

For all these claims that the majority of the British public supported 42 days, I see the comments on the beeb's notoriously right wing Have Your Say are pretty evenly split. If anything leaning towards agreement with DD.

But that would be a self-selected sample rather than a representative sample.

 

[Belushi]

I would ask you to re-read every post by me and also by Brainaddict.

Why? have they suddenly become informed and intelligent?

 

[untethered]

He's too old right now - just look at what happend to ming. It's not 1951 or 1927.

More's the pity.

 

[agricola]

For all these claims that the majority of the British public supported 42 days, I see the comments on the beeb's notoriously right wing Have Your Say are pretty evenly split. If anything leaning towards agreement with DD.

As I have said previously, those claims are bollocks. I doubt that any member of the public supports a magical number of 42 days, they would support 60, 90 or indeed any number (as Davis said, there are very good grounds for believing they will not stop at 42) because the Government have been successful in making this about security, which I think everyone here would recognize is utter nonsense.

 

[agricola]

He's too old right now - just look at what happend to ming. It's not 1951 or 1927.

Yes but Ming was got rid of because he was useless, not because he was old.

 

[Belushi]

You seem ignorant of this

You seem to be attributing to me views I dont have.

The only statements I've made regarding the constitution is to dispute the ludicrous assertions made earlier that the Uk doesnt have a constitution.

I havent commented on what I think about the constitution anyware iirc.

 

[marty21]

Yes but Ming was got rid of because he was useless, not because he was old.

they should have given vince cable the gig, but chose a 41 year old

 

[untethered]

they should have given vince cable the gig, but chose a 41 year old

Not just any 41 year old, but one that's never had responsibility for as much as a stationery cupboard.

 

[Gmart]

Is there really no votes for the oldies?

We ARE an aging population, and I feel that VC would have done a good job....

 

[butchersapron]

Yes but Ming was got rid of because he was useless, not because he was old.

Age certainly played its part - esp in public portrayl. Something that is pretty much #1 on party list bullshit today. DD would be 66 at least by the scheduled election after next. They didn't vote in Cameron on policies (which barely differed from other older candidates), they voted him in because he's young and can be PRed better. I'm not saying that this is right, and that it must be like this, but that's how ti is right now. It's a cyncial game.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Just heard about this and i'm extremely surprised although I have to say I actually have quite alot of respect for him for doing it, someone in politics who believes in their principles so strongly they're prepared to give up their position in the shadow cabinet and possibly his future as home secretary should the tories get elected, I think we need more politicians with this sort of spine.

Still hate the tories though

 

[Louis MacNeice]

You seem to be attributing to me views I dont have.

The only statements I've made regarding the constitution is to dispute the ludicrous assertions made earlier that the Uk doesnt have a constitution.

I havent commented on what I think about the constitution anyware iirc.

Quite.

There is also seems to be a suggestion that if we get the constitution right (or should that be proper) then problems such as going to war against Iraq would be solved. I'm not convinced people are looking in the right place for solutions.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[agricola]

Not just any 41 year old, but one that's never had responsibility for as much as a stationery cupboard.

yes, but he demonstrated how good he was at the job by having a three-line whip demanding that people abstain!

 

[butchersapron]

Quite.

There is also seems to be a suggestion that if we get the constitution right (or should that be proper) then problems such as going to war against Iraq would be solved. I'm not convinced people are looking in the right place for solutions.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

Some of them don't even know what the problem is.

 

[untethered]

yes, but he demonstrated how good he was at the job by having a three-line whip demanding that people abstain!

He cut his political teeth in the European Parliament. It shows.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Well done and fair play to him. What a shame the left has been unable to produce anyone capable of this - thus leaving the mantle of ""defender of liberties" to a tory. What a shocking indictemnt of the state of the left today and the times we live in.

Meant to respond to this earlier but had problems with my internet connection:

What nonsense - the left has produced among the strongest and most consistent defenders of civil liberties in this country, including the finest lawyers, QCs and human rights organisations. That they, and principled socialist MPs like John McDonnell, are ignored by the media who prefer to rely on stunts by the likes of Davis doesn't change mean they don't exist.

And Butchersapron and Belushi are bang on the money here. Whilst Davis is correct on the issue of 42 days, socialists should critically question whether someone who opposes gay equality, women's reproductive rights, workers rights and supports a system where power rests in the hands of wealthy, unaccountable elites is a libertarian in any sense that we would use the word.

 

[marty21]

Age certainly played its part - esp in public portrayl. Something that is pretty much #1 on party list bullshit today. DD would be 66 at least by the scheduled election after next. They didn't vote in Cameron on policies (which barely differed from other older candidates), they voted him in because he's young and can be PRed better. I'm not saying that this is right, and that it must be like this, but that's how ti is right now. It's a cyncial game.

when brown goes, it will be some young leader taking over, one of the millibands probably

 

[agricola]

Age certainly played its part - esp in public portrayl. Something that is pretty much #1 on party list bullshit today. DD would be 66 at least by the scheduled election after next. They didn't vote in Cameron on policies (which barely differed from other older candidates), they voted him in because he's young and can be PRed better. I'm not saying that this is right, and that it must be like this, but that's how ti is right now. It's a cyncial game.

It is. I dont know if you have read Peter Oborne's books about the political class, but it (if its true - the Grauniad are reporting it) is perhaps telling that Davis was very anti-42 days, ID cards, and pro-civil liberties, and that Cameron, Osborne and Gove - who one might consider closely match Oborne's definition - were leaning towards 42 days. In that sense, this could well represent a split in the Tories.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/jun/12/daviddavis.conservatives3

 

[audiotech]

David Davis early life makes for interesting reading.

Born to a single mother Betty Brown in York, Davis was initially brought up by his grandparents in York. His grandfather Walter Harrison was the son of a wealthy trawlerman and was disinherited after joining the Communist Party. His father, whom he has never looked for, was Welsh. When his mother married a Polish Jewish printworker, Ronald Davis, he moved to London. They lived initially in a flat in a "slum" in Wandsworth before moving to a council estate in Tooting, South London.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Davis_(British_politician)

Perceived to be socially conservative - a traditionalist in moral terms.

 

[magneze]

Dominic Grieve has said that should Davis be reelected then he won't step aside as shadow Home Secretary. Considering the mess Labour are in at the moment, Davis could have been Home Secretary around 2010. Maybe he knew that reshuffle was coming?

Mr Clegg said the party would fight the seat at the next general election but he said the "unnecessary and illiberal" 42 day proposal transcended party politics.

Very true.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

This is pretty much spot on:

http://www.davidosler.com/2008/06/congratulations_david_davis.html

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Quite.

There is also seems to be a suggestion that if we get the constitution right (or should that be proper) then problems such as going to war against Iraq would be solved. I'm not convinced people are looking in the right place for solutions.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

My concern, as stated, is that the lack of a constitution leaves the prime minister acting by royal prerogative. A PM with loyal commons majority is extraordinarily powerful, and this is not a good thing.

 

[agricola]

This is pretty much spot on:

http://www.davidosler.com/2008/06/congratulations_david_davis.html

All the good sense espoused is, sadly, undone when the writer states:

For the first time since rejoining the party 18 months ago, I am seriously questioning whether I did the right thing.

... this of course is the Labour Party.

 

[magneze]

This is pretty much spot on:

http://www.davidosler.com/2008/06/congratulations_david_davis.html

Indeed.

 

[exosculate]

The only statements I've made regarding the constitution is to dispute the ludicrous assertions made earlier that the Uk doesnt have a constitution.

No one made that assertion non-codified straw-man man.

 

[Wilf]

This thread's like being rimmed by Walter Bagehot