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Cyril Smith dies

I think all the people who have been so quick to pass judgement should do a bit more research on both asbestos and T&G and on the man himself before jumping on the outrage bandwaggon and condemning him in such a kneejerk cruel way its easy to post links.

My family and thousands of others have been severely affected by the T&N plant in the valley and the asbestos dust it produced...i lived (and my parents still live) about a mile away from the plant.

I have memories of the dust covered plants and trees on 'the wreck wasteground' we used to play in as kids, i remember being shocked at the outrage many years later when all of the sheds got removed as they had asbestos roofs. I have seen too many members of the local community and friends/my family die of Mesothelioma and other respiratory deseases it is the most horrific death, i wouldn't wish it on anybody.
My dad has liquid on the lungs he is in and out of hospital being drained regularly and is suffering from a variety of other ilnesses like DVT, high blood preassure, Diabetes.

This was (and still is) something much bigger than one man. Asbestos was named by the ancient greeks. For years there had been thousands of asbestos related deaths all over the North West, England and the World....It's still being covered up now in many third world countries and asbestos deaths are still high. In 2006, 2.3 million tons of asbestos was mined worldwide. i dont see you ranting and campaigning about that.

Cyril was no angel, yes he did make mistakes in his career and in his personal life just like everyone else on the planet. He did what he thought was right and was the first to admit what went on was wrong but I dont believe Cyril's main motivation was money at all. Around that time he was already wealthy from his company Smiths springs that employed over 50 people.

Back in his day things were different than nowadays, he wrongly lobbied for that company and defended what went on at that place to protect the livelyhood of the ENTIRE community around that area....over time it turns out that was a bad move and he paid a high price being voted out of every single political office he held, including 27 school governorships. It's easy to look back and criticise.

He was a great defender of the working classes, of education, of Social housing,of human life he said what he thought rightly or wrongly and stood by it.

as for the nonce allegations why bother fighting a smear campaign he knew wasn't true? Why waste the energy? ONE place published that crap, Just like Cyril i wouldn't waste my time trying to disprove the smears, they can stay exactly that. Smears. It's on record the great work he did for eduation in the North West.

I'm not going to keep arguing this point i just wanted to add a different perspective. People who haven't got all the facts and do a little reading on google are entitled to hate him if they want its a free world. I know there are many people out there who know he was a great man who did many more good things than bad.

http://www.indcatholicnews.com/news.php?viewStory=16660
so umm, you start out by criticising those who - in your opinion - go wildly OTT in their zeroing in on the many question marks that can be raised over smith, and enbd up going just as wildly OTt in a blanket exoneration/eulogising of him, even descrtibing this reactionary mini-tycoon and social climber as a 'great man' despite him having achieved so little, in concrete terms, for the workers of rochdale. I can only conclude self-awareness is not your long suit.
That, or you're a relative of his
 
Private eye is prolonged media coverage?

I've said my piece you are entitled to your opinion. He achieved lots 'in concrete terms' read the links i posted.

I'm not related to him and i'm not saying what he did was right i'm just saying it wasn't purely for financial reasons and that he did much more good work during his lifetime than you give him credit for.

The insults and venom directed towards him are out of order but I shouldn't have got wound up by a few sick rude people who never knew him and have probably never even been to Rochdale on some kind of witch burning crusade.

I'd love to know Proper Tidy and Kenny G's levels of involvement campaigning around the issue of asbestos in the workplace considering their strong views. That anger could be directed towards organisations and individuals more deserving than a local MP.
 
n some kind of witch burning crusade.

.
That is absurd. The man was plainly a cunt as the original post pointed out. To rely on some fucked up localism to defend him is sick when many good people of Rochdale have spent years exposing the man for what he plainly was: a greedy, corrupt man who engaged in questionable activities involving grabbing testicles and beating backsides.

It is because people like you feel the need to excuse men like Sir Cyril that they can act with apparent impunity in town after town. I have seen it happen in plenty of other towns so I wonder why you think it didn't happen in Rochdale?

The evidence is plainly there. With the asbestos it is documentary evidence in the forms of company letters and questions and statements made in Parliament. With regard to being a paedo there was countless affidavits provided as listed in the links above. With regard to his obvious greed and cuntery; The man could speak for himself, see the youtube links above.
 
You confuse fucked up localism with living there and knowing him as apposed to reading about it on the internet.

As i've said before i'm not excusing anything, just giving my viewpoint. What don't i think happened now?
 
Jesus. :rolleyes:

The child abuse allegations are not confirmed.

And he was overweight because of a medical condition, not cos he ate too much.

I didn't make any comment about his weight.

At least i knew him, i was part of that community

So? Maxine Carr knew Ian Huntly.

His attempts to defend the users of asbestos are a matter of public record you docile cunt.

But you and the aptly named Maggot can continue defending the corrupt piece of child abusing shite if you like.

Freaks.
 
You confuse fucked up localism with living there and knowing him as apposed to reading about it on the internet.

As i've said before i'm not excusing anything, just giving my viewpoint. What don't i think happened now?

But you got the fuck out of there sharpish didn't you? The people who worked in his factory their whole lives breathing in asbestos dust are the ones who really can comment rather than a lighting techncian/ stage manager such as yourself who lived there until you were eighteen and then fucked out.
 
The bloke's been understandably fucking shunted for the past 15-20 years. He's dead, draw a veil, no-one cares, he gets a decent burial, move on.
 
You seem all too willing to launch to the defence of a fat paedo asbestos loving mill owner. Why?

Where have I leapt to his defence exactly? I don't know enough about the guy to make one. I'd never even heard of him before today.

I'm just remarking on the unpleasant vitriol on display in some of the posts on this thread. Especially, for example, the one that described someone's whole family as 'cunts' simply because they knew this Smith guy.
 
Where have I leapt to his defence exactly? I don't know enough about the guy to make one. I'd never even heard of him before today.

I'm just remarking on the unpleasant vitriol on display in some of the posts on this thread. Especially, for example, the one that described someone's whole family as 'cunts' simply because they knew this Smith guy.

You cunt.

you don't understand the anger people might have towards someone like Cyril Smith, and the sort of scum who would seek to defend him?

That makes you both a cunt and stupid quite frankly, now off you fuck.
 
Where have I leapt to his defence exactly? I don't know enough about the guy to make one. I'd never even heard of him before today.

I'm just remarking on the unpleasant vitriol on display in some of the posts on this thread. Especially, for example, the one that described someone's whole family as 'cunts' simply because they knew this Smith guy.

I s'pose you have to make a big deal of defending this guy that you didn't know - or just let it sink.
 
Private eye is prolonged media coverage?
I never said it was, and what an absurd, meaningless point to make

He achieved lots 'in concrete terms' read the links i posted.
even going by your links the sum total of his achievements are a) getting a council seat and repeatedly holding it, and doing the same with the parly seat. In an area with strong Lib roots, that's fuck all. In terms of doing tangible things which imprtoved the lives of his constituents, whom he professed to care so much about, ditto. something which a piece of hagiography by the equally dodgy David Alton cannot alter.
I'm not related to him and i'm not saying what he did was right i'm just saying it wasn't purely for financial reasons
no, but he DID financially benefit from practices which led to the death of a lot of his constituents, and as a petit bourgeois capitalist himself, when push came to shove, he was more concerned with being a bosses mouthpiece than fighting for the workers.
and that he did much more good work during his lifetime than you give him credit for.
again, WHAT good work, other than win elections? specifics, please.

The insults and venom directed towards him are out of order but I shouldn't have got wound up by a few sick rude people who never knew him and have probably never even been to Rochdale on some kind of witch burning crusade.
In my view, it is 100% legit to form an opinion of someone based on their actions and statements during their life, and to state that opinion. You don't need to be intimately acquainted with every person on his street and every relative of his to do that. That's all that's happening here, not the "sick witch burning crusade" you make it out to be. And politicians are more fair game than most.
I'd love to know Proper Tidy and Kenny G's levels of involvement campaigning around the issue of asbestos in the workplace considering their strong views. That anger could be directed towards organisations and individuals more deserving than a local MP
And this is purest essence of utter bollocks. I do NOT have to spent my entire life devoted obsessively to a Pro-Choice campaign to, for instance, to be entitled to criticise david alton's anti-abortion stance.
and besides which, when it comes to my last post, the one you responded to, you've SIMPLY MISSED THE FUCKING POINT. Which is this; you say PT and Kenny G went wildly OTT in theifr criticisms of Smith, whilst at the same time doing exactly that in your defence of smith. "Physician, heal thyself", or "beam in thine own eye" territory, in other words.
doh! :facepalm:
 
I'm just remarking on the unpleasant vitriol on display in some of the posts on this thread.

For some of us here of an, ahem, certain age, there's a memory of Smith as built up by the media of the time. The bluff Lancastrian who spoke his mind, famous for telling someone to 'shut your cakehole' in the House of Commons. The sort of politician commentators might point to as an example of when there were characters in politics - 'real people'.

He was able to hide behind that until his death, and that ability is as much a cause of anger as anything else, because it is unjust.
 
good riddance.. i was about Rochdale during the early 90s... he wouldnt get involved in the Poll Tax issues and the growing racist attacks in the area...
we regularly picketed his offices/surgery...

hateful man
 
(Edited....its not worth talking to you jokers you just turn everything into an argument. Your comments are out of order in my opinion. deal with it.)
 
Your complete failure to produce a coherent position is obvious. You happened to have been born in Rochdale, you left when you were eighteen, you have no more authority to comment on the issue than anyone else but have repeatedly tried to gain the upper hand due to your claimed for local knowledge.

You first came on with a hagiography of Sir Cyril, you now say there is anger about the issue. Don't you think the local MP for fuck knows how many years should have actually done something about it? Especially as he was actively, even pro-actively attending Parliament to defend the asbestos plant?
 
good riddance.. i was about Rochdale during the early 90s... he wouldnt get involved in the Poll Tax issues and the growing racist attacks in the area...
we regularly picketed his offices/surgery...

hateful man

I think he should be applauded for not getting involved in racist attacks.
 
(Edited....its not worth talking to you jokers you just turn everything into an argument. Your comments are out of order in my opinion. deal with it.)

:D:facepalm:

Well that's just it you sad sack we don't have to deal with it do we?

Still you carry on PMing threats to people you muppet!
 
:D:facepalm:

Well that's just it you sad sack we don't have to deal with it do we?

Still you carry on PMing threats to people you muppet!

You really are a lowlife scumbag. Twisting and turning everything i say....does it give you a kick to always argue the toss with everything?

I didn't threaten you at all. I just offered you the opportunity to come and say those disgusting things about my family to my face. which like the little mouthy coward you are you have not responded and chosen to try and manipulate the situation yet again.
 
You really are a lowlife scumbag. Twisting and turning everything i say....does it give you a kick to always argue the toss with everything?

I didn't threaten you at all. I just offered you the opportunity to come and say those disgusting things about my family to my face. which like the little mouthy coward you are you have not responded and chosen to try and manipulate the situation yet again.

Some people just don't agree with your opinion, deal with it!
 
I notice tooter offered nary a word to my closely-reasoned rebuttal of his points....

Aye, you and me both. I'm still waiting for the link to the Smith's apology for his disgusting, and probably finacially motavated, defence of asbestos.

ETA: Oh and its been 3 days since this thread was started, so about another 40 odd people have died through asbestos related illnesses. Still he probably did a lot for the kids in Rochdale, eh?
 
They showed clips from his funeral on local TV - I couldn't believe how small the coffin was and that they only needed five pall bearers!
_49087693_010176767-1.jpg
 
Aye, you and me both. I'm still waiting for the link to the Smith's apology for his disgusting, and probably finacially motavated, defence of asbestos.

ETA: Oh and its been 3 days since this thread was started, so about another 40 odd people have died through asbestos related illnesses. Still he probably did a lot to kids in Rochdale, eh?

Corrected.
 
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