Cyril Smith dies

[co-op]

You need to fuck off back to Dwyer School. Looks like you may have to repeat your first year courses.

I like the sound of Dwyer School it's like a new Ofsted grading; Outstanding school, Good School, Satisfactory School, Inadequate School, Dire School [I've used English spelling here, obviously it'd be Dwyer in Wales].

 

[Nylock]

actually, 'Dire' in welsh is 'Ddybryd'... (pronounced 'The brid*')
</welsh>





*not a spelling mistake of 'bird' either

 

[co-op]

actually, 'Dire' in welsh is 'Ddybryd'... (pronounced 'The brid*')
</welsh>





*not a spelling mistake of 'bird' either

I meant scots-welsh.

 

[Nylock]

 

[Tooter]

i wonder if somebody is feeling a bit of a cunt now?

No i dont feel like that at all, he was a family friend his whole life. Try as you might to villify anyone with an opposing opinion to yourself my family had no idea anything untoward was going on and neither did you. You are only speculating on what you have read from other sources and feeling pretty smug chipping in with a 'told you so' comment after the fact, anyone can do that.

the revelations are really shocking, we were all fooled if the accusations are true, my mum is devestated...poor people that were effected by this, a sad affair.

 

[butchersapron]

No i dont feel like that at all, he was a family friend his whole life. Try as you might to villify anyone with an opposing opinion to yourself my family had no idea anything untoward was going on and neither did you. You are only speculating on what you have read from other sources and feeling pretty smug chipping in with a 'told you so' comment after the fact, anyone can do that.

the revelations are really shocking, we were all fooled if the accusations are true, my mum is devestated...poor people that were effected by this, a sad affair.

It was you attempting to vilify people who were telling the truth about him.

 

[barney_pig]

No i dont feel like that at all, he was a family friend his whole life. Try as you might to villify anyone with an opposing opinion to yourself my family had no idea anything untoward was going on and neither did you. You are only speculating on what you have read from other sources and feeling pretty smug chipping in with a 'told you so' comment after the fact, anyone can do that.

the revelations are really shocking, we were all fooled if the accusations are true, my mum is devestated...poor people that were effected by this, a sad affair.

Cunt doesn't even leave the guts to apologise

 

[butchersapron]

the revelations are really shocking, we were all fooled if the accusations are true, my mum is devestated...poor people that were effected by this, a sad affair.

The GMP reckon they're true. A sad affair indeed.What's it taught you?

 

[Tooter]

Cunt doesn't even leave the guts to apologise

Apologise to who? What do i have to apologise for?

 

[Tooter]

The GMP reckon they're true. A sad affair indeed.What's it taught you?

Dont post on public forums until i can see into the future.

 

[butchersapron]

Dont post on public forums until i can see into the future.

This is about the past not the future though. Nothing else?

 

[Fedayn]

Who is Tooter?

 

[butchersapron]

You're going to have to re-read your own thread from the start fed!

 

[Frances Lengel]

No i dont feel like that at all, he was a family friend his whole life. Try as you might to villify anyone with an opposing opinion to yourself my family had no idea anything untoward was going on and neither did you. You are only speculating on what you have read from other sources and feeling pretty smug chipping in with a 'told you so' comment after the fact, anyone can do that.

the revelations are really shocking, we were all fooled if the accusations are true, my mum is devestated...poor people that were effected by this, a sad affair.

The "revelations" aren't shocking, they merely confirm what a lot of people have known for years. People weren't fooled, they wilfully turned a deaf ear. Rochdale's a very snobby town and as most of the fat, grotesque mess's victims came from troubled backgrounds any aspersions cast upon Cyril were dismissed by the third rate (and as often as not corrupt) dullards who occupied any and all positions of power in Rochdale at the time.

As an aside, isn't it a bit odd that the people with the least reason to be snobbish are often the biggest snobs of all?

 

[Tooter]

You are right, it is about the past, and it looks like a was wrong from what i've read. At the time of posting and my whole life i was not aware of this information similarly for alot of people close to him and most other people on this forum.

It's easy to look back after the event and say i told you so. I have learnt some things from this post but i definately wont be posting them on here for trolls and people on a witch hunt to pick over....besides this is a forum not a classroom.

 

[Fedayn]

Well i think some of these comments are really nasty. None of you know the man any you are getting all worked up about nothing...you've probably never even met him.

Cyril was a lovely guy. I was born in Rochdale, Cyril was a good family friend that had worked with my mother. I grew up and saw him alot of time, as far as i know he had an excellent reputation both in Politics and the local community, he worked hard and did what he had to and saved alot of jobs as most people who lived around that area at the time were employed by Turners.

I'd never heard of the allegations of child abuse against him but i dont believe them for a second. there were alot of political smears against the man because he was very outspoken and he said it how it was even if he wasnt towing the line. He's well loved by most of the people in Rochdale and indeed around the country.

RIP

Bless the fat fucking cunt. Managed it all, abused young boys and profitted from the death of older workers, what a loathsome scum fuck you had as a friend.....

 

[Frances Lengel]

You are right, it is about the past, and it looks like a was wrong from what i've read. At the time of posting and my whole life i was not aware of this information similarly for alot of people close to him and most other people on this forum.

It's easy to look back after the event and say i told you so. I have learnt some things from this post but i definately wont be posting them on here for trolls and people on a witch hunt to pick over....besides this is a forum not a classroom.

It's not about looking back & saying I told you so - Rochdale's a small town & I find it difficult to believe that anyone from the town could have remained unaware until now of any allegations about the veritable giant of a man who did so much to put Rochdale on the map.

 

[Tooter]

It's not about looking back & saying I told you so - Rochdale's a small town & I find it difficult to believe that anyone from the town could have remained unaware until now of any allegations about the veritable giant of a man who did so much to put Rochdale on the map.

I agree, anyone in a position of power that knew about these events and knowingly mislead the police or derailed any investigation should be brought to justice...so who are these people?

Fedayn you are quite visceral in stating the obvious.

 

[Wilf]

No i dont feel like that at all, he was a family friend his whole life. Try as you might to villify anyone with an opposing opinion to yourself my family had no idea anything untoward was going on and neither did you. You are only speculating on what you have read from other sources and feeling pretty smug chipping in with a 'told you so' comment after the fact, anyone can do that.

the revelations are really shocking, we were all fooled if the accusations are true, my mum is devestated...poor people that were effected by this, a sad affair.

When it came to Jimmy Savile, I found him deeply unpleasant, particularly in the Louis Theroux programme, but I had genuinely no idea about his child raping tendency (even, ironically, though it was raised in the programme). It was a momentous case largely because of the extensive nature of his crimes and also how he got away with it and the half baked inquiries never became public. However with Smith you can't say any of that. He was openly accused by Rochdale Alternative Press and then, nationally, by Private Eye. If he was really a family friend, you must have known all that. Even if you chose not to believe it, you can't deny knowing.
Edit: kind of a reply to the wrong post - my comments were more aimed at the one of yours fed quoted in 166. Regardless, the point stands.

 

[elbows]

I'm not sure about this idea that everyone, especially close friends and family, simply must have known. Something appearing in private eye ages ago is not exactly the same as it being splashed all over the front pages and repeatedly referred to over a period of many years. And sometimes people who are closer to someone may actually be less likely to know, not more. And I suspect this may have been even more so back at a time where sexual offences against children were less likely to be shouted about loudly, and more likely to vanish under taboo.

Surely the lesson here is not that Tooter must or should have known, its that people should try really hard to keep an open mind and not attack people making accusations just because they think the bloke in question is sound. These lessons arent as easy as they should be, in part because people generally do trust their own opinions and experiences more than those of everyone else, and it can be very hard to bridge the gap between the person you knew and the complete picture of what the man may have been. People are good at turning a blind eye even when there are obvious signs, so its not surprising that very real and bad things can remain under the radar if there is no compelling primary evidence or suspicion that a person has seen or felt first or even second hand.

The above stuff is one of the reasons I'm none to happy about the desperate rush to airbrush exposed villains out of history that can happen, especially with sexual offences. Obviously I dont mean the BBC should still be showing every Savile episode of top of the pops as if nothing happened, but all too often there seems to be a drive to erase some stuff that should perhaps be allowed to linger a little, especially if lessons really can be learnt from it rather than pure hostility and dodgy jokes. Although bad jokes are also a form of coming to terms with something that people may struggle to discuss in other ways,

 

[UrbaneFox]

it looks like a was wrong

Having trouble really acknowledging it, arent you?

 

[ExtraRefined]

There must be some more dead ones at least

Mohammed

 

[Wilf]

I'm not sure about this idea that everyone, especially close friends and family, simply must have known. Something appearing in private eye ages ago is not exactly the same as it being splashed all over the front pages and repeatedly referred to over a period of many years. And sometimes people who are closer to someone may actually be less likely to know, not more. And I suspect this may have been even more so back at a time where sexual offences against children were less likely to be shouted about loudly, and more likely to vanish under taboo.

Maybe, but I got the impession from one of Tooter's posts that s/he was at least middle aged (reference to mother working with Smith?). As such, Tooter was around when this came out - it was certainly talked about in the town and, would have been discussed, I'd have thought, by actual friends of Smith. Yes, certainly there's a sense in which you can hear a thing and simply not consider it because it doesn't fit into your world view or direct experience of the person involved. However, I think claiming no knowledge at all is pushing it.

 

[butchersapron]

tooter was mugged- this is how these people work.They have to make mugging people their trade. The gaps that you allow yourself to be mugged in are different.

 

[elbows]

tooter was mugged- this is how these people work.They have to make mugging people their trade. The gaps that you allow yourself to be mugged in are different.

Which is what made Savile such an extreme and interesting example, the scale of his mugging on so many levels over such a long period of time, to so many different parts of the establishment etc.

From all that has emerged so far about Cyril Smith he didnt need to do much mugging to get away with the offences we have heard about.

One of the few skills I have is being hard to mug. I'm not suggesting I am immune, but many types of dodgy character show up on my radar instantly, and I dont really know why such an ability comes to me naturally, dont really understand how easily people are made suckers of. And I dont know if my ability is actually build upon some aspects of my personality that suck, eg not giving people I like too much benefit of doubt, not taking things at face value including my own delusions, which makes it hard to be happy & confident on many occasions. Nobody gets a free pass with me, but if we were all like that would the world be great or simply suffer from a different kind of horror? What about concepts such as loyalty?

 

[discokermit]

No i dont feel like that at all, he was a family friend his whole life. Try as you might to villify anyone with an opposing opinion to yourself my family had no idea anything untoward was going on and neither did you. You are only speculating on what you have read from other sources and feeling pretty smug chipping in with a 'told you so' comment after the fact, anyone can do that.

the revelations are really shocking, we were all fooled if the accusations are true, my mum is devestated...poor people that were effected by this, a sad affair.

i'm not villifying you for getting it wrong. i'm having a go cos you cunted off all the people who got it right.

 

[butchersapron]

Cyril Smith rumours were known to Liberal party

The former Liberal party leader, Lord Steel, heard rumours that Cyril Smith used to deliver punishment beatings to boys, but the party did not investigate the claims.

Steel said a lack of substantive complaints meant the party leadership did not look into Smith's involvement in corporal punishment, which was understood to have taken place when he was a councillor in Rochdale.

Local labour big-wigs knew too.

 

[butchersapron]

Cyril Smith 'sexually assaulted teenager in Houses of Parliament'

Cyril Smith, the late Liberal MP who police believe sexually abused boys in his home town of Rochdale, has been accused of assaulting a young Liberal activist inside the houses of parliament.

The alleged victim has told the Guardian that the sexual abuse took place when he was 17 in a Westminster office while other politicians walked by, not knowing what was happening. It followed 18 months of careful grooming by the MP as the assaults became more intrusive and serious, he claimed.

 

[Fedayn]

Fedayn you are quite visceral in stating the obvious.

Indeed, perhaps I should be far more polite when referring to the likes of Smith?!

 

[elbows]

From that article:

In the late 1960s and early 70s when Smith was a prominent and powerful figure in Rochdale it has been reported that some people in the town used to send their unruly children to Smith's home on Emma Street to be chastised.

Those were the days