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Cypriot bank savers forced to pay towards Euro/IMF bailout

butchersapron said:
Have a you a link for that nearly 50% figure? I've only seen that it makes up £5 billion of the £7 billion.
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The only reference I have is in the article:

The terms of the bailout are crucial to Russia as, according to Reuters, nearly half of the €70bn worth of deposits in Cyprus' banks is held by foreigners, and the vast majority are believed to be from Russian officials and oligarchs who have flocked to Cypriot banks seeking the secrecy they are unable to find at home.
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And here's the point which you don't seem to be able to grasp - the £10 billion bail out, the money that's coming if they do the austerity and cuts the IMF and the EU demand (£1.4 billion for starters), guess who it's going to - straight to those same rich russians, they are getting their money back. Even the 'good' component of the current deal is rotten, is theft straight from the pockets of the non-wealthy into the pocket of of the rich.
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Yes, I do understand that. But at least they'd be paying some of them back with their own money. That part of the deal I'd say is 'good'. The rest is rotten, yes. What could they do, though? The only way I can see they can avoid the bail out altogether would be to default on the loans and leave the EU. I've said I wouldn't be against that.
 
coley said:
Says if all, perhaps it will explain the situation sufficiently simply, even for for 2 sheds :)
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Yes and no. Historically always been an upper limit on sums protected, Brown was first to say all funds and it's unmanageable as Ireland found.

It's about AVOIDING turning the sovereign crisis of Greece into the sovereign crisis of Cyprus by cauterizing the Cypriot banks that made now worthless investment in Greece.
The notion wasn't a bad one, UK savers have lost more in real terms by the quantities route - their safeguarded money buys 25percent less than it did 5years ago.... And money just sits in banks case it needed in the next emergency stiffeling growth.
But the way it's been done, without redlining the depositors garentee has trashed confidence in the EUropean banking sector 6percent, 3percent its irrelevant, confidence has gone.
The UK with its own bloated dependancy on a financial sector has to get out from being under the same regulator (Osborne signed us up) that thinks this is an allowable rule bend.


Holders of Cypriot bonds are also fucked as without banks economy won't function in a way that will see a return
 
Rich investors hedge against risk by having a multitude of investments, while this quick fix is actually in their short term interest, it comes at the cost of bedrock and all future EUropean banking deposits being as safe as a the whim of politicians.
 
Pissing off people who have spare cash by taking a percentage of that spare cash is never a clever move. They'll always shout louder than people who have nothing.
 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/18/super-rich-made-cyprus-home

A band of super-rich foreign tycoons who took Cypriot citizenship in recent decades – lured by a favourable tax regime – are expected to be among the hardest hit by the island's surprise deposit tax as several are believed to have been required to deposit at least €17m of their fortunes on the island to qualify for citizenship.

Billionaires attracted to the island by the controversial citizenship scheme, designed to court super-rich figures, include Norwegian-born oil tanker tycoon John Fredriksen, Israeli internet gambling entrepreneur Teddy Sagi, and Alexander Abramov, the Russian steel magnate who chairs FTSE 100 group Evraz.

Between 2007 and 2010 some 30 foreign nationals, mostly Russians, were reportedly granted Cypriot citizenship. Most prominent among them was Abramov. "Mr Abramov is considered to be offering high level services to the Republic of Cyprus, taking into account his business activities," explained Sylikiotis. "Therefore, reasons of public interest justify his naturalisation as a special case."
Abramov is a close business associate of Chelsea FC owner Roman Abramovich, and together with fellow Russian Alexander Frolov they hold controlling interests in FTSE 100 steel group Evraz, through Cyprus investment vehicle Lanebrook Ltd. Abramov is chairman and, according to Companies House, lists his nationality as Russian — so he may hold joint citizenship. A spokesman for Evraz could not be reached for comment.

Forbes magazine's list of the world's richest people puts Abramov's fortune at $4.6bn, which does not come close to making him Cyprus's wealthiest naturalised citizen. That honour goes to 68-year-old Fredriksen, who made his first fortune during the Persian Gulf "tanker wars" that accompanied the 1980s Iran-Iraq conflict. According to his biographer, Fredriksen's operations were "the lifeline to the Ayatollah."

Like Abramov, he oversees his global empire from London, but he is said to keep homes in Oslo and Marbella as well as Cyprus. For many years, Fredriksen was Norway's richest man, but in 2006 is said to have given up Norwegian citizenship in favour of the Mediterranean island, reportedly because it offered his family better tax arrangements. Today he ranks 87th on the Forbes list, worth an estimated $11.5bn. In the last decade his business interests have expanded into deepwater drilling. He could not be reached for comment.
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The rich will be hit too. And no it doesn't make it all right.
 
can't see this having legs anymore

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/06/cyprus-courts-chinese-property-buyers

One of the first things you see after landing at Larnaca airport is an advert for a property development company. It is in Chinese.
It will soon be carnival time in the city of Pafos on the south-west coast of Cyprus – and this year theme is China.
"Everything will be Chinese," says Pafos mayor, Savvas Vergas, in his office in the pretty, whitewashed city hall, fronted by classical Greek pillars. "Meals … folklore … Everything will be on Chinese culture."
The carnival will be a way of celebrating a most unusual boom in a country which, like others in southern Europe, has been stricken by the eurozone crisis. Property prices in Cyprus have fallen by around 15% since 2007. Yet an official survey published last month found that between last August and October more than 600 properties were sold to Chinese buyers, 90% of which were in Pafos.
"The real growth came after August because that was when the government made clear the terms and conditions for third country nationals to get permanent residence," says Giorgios Leptos, a director of the Leptos property group and president of the Pafos chamber of commerce and industry.
The opportunity to secure permanent residence in an EU member state is a huge attraction for Chinese because it offers them visa-free travel throughout the union.
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my folks have a place in Cyprus which they spend several months of the year in, they have a modest amount of money in a current account to pay bills etc which i assume is about to get tonked. luckily they haven't transferred over this years cash yet.

some friends of theres just sold there home in the UK and were in the process of sending the proceeds electronically to Cyprus. Hopefully it didn't get there by Friday..
 
two sheds said:
Butchers said nobody on the thread was objecting to a wealth tax. I suspect Coley would object to a wealth tax but doesn't want to say that. I suspect Sas who's thread it is would object to a wealth tax, along with most tories.

I disagree with the privatisation and I disagree with the austerity measures. I disagree with the savings tax as they are suggesting it. What else should I disagree with?
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I suggested a sales tax on stock transactions. It gets the money directly from the people who created the mess we've found ourselves in since 2008. I think they can spare .5% per trade (more or less), don't you? It might even slow down computerized trading a little.
 
gosub said:
But the rich now get 900000 of their million back rather than the flat rate 100000 + whatever comes out of final settlement. At the cost of their list of which European banks are in which group and spreading their money among them. Bedrock makes sense for them too
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Fair play if EU will compensate small investors they should just let the banks fail. Isn't that going to bugger up their economy too, though?
 
two sheds said:
The only reference I have is in the article:




Yes, I do understand that. But at least they'd be paying some of them back with their own money. That part of the deal I'd say is 'good'. The rest is rotten, yes. What could they do, though? The only way I can see they can avoid the bail out altogether would be to default on the loans and leave the EU. I've said I wouldn't be against that.
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Apols, misread what you were saying, thought you was saying around 50% of the money raised by this levy would be from russians.

As for what else they could do, well first off, something needing to be done does not and never should automatically mean what was done was the correct option, that way lies opponents of austerity and the configuration of existing bail outs arguing that what they oppose was actually necessary - that should never be our role. But in practical terms, raising corporation tax by more than 2.5%, aggressively taxing unsecured foreign deposits (eu-wide if necessary), transactions taxes, making some use of the future gas earnings (which frankly, i now expect the russian state to get a large share of when they step in with a generous loan very soon).
 
gosub said:
Thought northern rock was early, but but do remember the irish, and seems so long ago now
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Guaranteeing NR deposits was one thing, because they were quantifiable at a level the government could afford. But guaranteeing all deposits in all institutions was something the Irish surprised everyone with in 2008, and that left others with little choice but to follow suit even though they considered it extremely ill-advised.
 
two sheds said:
Fair play if EU will compensate small investors they should just let the banks fail. Isn't that going to bugger up their economy too, though?
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It's all deck chair rearrangement now with added nasty precedents, and I say precedents they may in the end do what would have been expected, but but the trust is gone. The regulator allowed a work around that means the guarantee is worthless.
 
bi0boy said:
Guaranteeing NR deposits was one thing, because they were quantifiable at a level the government could afford. But guaranteeing all deposits in all institutions was something the Irish surprised everyone with in 2008, and that left others with little choice but to follow suit even though they considered it extremely ill-advised.
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But all deposits in EU banks aren't guaranteed £70k UK and 100000 euro rest of EU, was state of play at weekend, Cyprus was actually first in EU to set at that level.
 
A 10% take sounds fair.

The money deposited in banks is invested to pay for the running of the bank plus interest payments.

If the investments go badly wrong then depositers have to pay the price of the banks failure. And the shareholders too.
 
It's laughable all these business people coming on the radio claiming they didn't know that their money was being invested.

Duh. :D:facepalm:
 
Why not just follow the rules and let the banks go bankrupt (as they surely are) and then guarantee the first 100,000 of each eligible account?
 
Polonium one lump or two? :)

When your neighbour is basically a Bomd villian pissing him off is not a great plan :(
 
What would happen if the Turks took advantage of this - and just said - move your money to us - no tax - maybe as an attempt to take over the Island for the Turks?
 
Maybe this generous russian offer i was suggesting night suddenly appear earlier would be tied to Cyprus leaving the euro-zone, at the least?
 
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