Cycling Track

[butchersapron]

You are right that I incorrectly identified Sigmund has having stupid opinions for reasons of national bias, when I should have realised that he habitually holds stupid views for much less understandable reasons.

[quote="butchersapron]2) Of course it is. Are you now connecting being British with cheating, dishonesty and so on?

What on Earth are you talking about here? When have I ever done that?

I'm glad though that you acknowledge the general pro-British bias on these boards.[/quote]
Do you think this justifies your nationalist anti-british views? You sound like a derry diss.

 

[editor]

Noting wrong at all with cheering on the British team.
Nothing wrong with cheering on other teams too.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Do you think this justifies your nationalist anti-british views? You sound like a derry diss.

This is just nuts. Do you think I'm a "nationalist anti-british... derry diss" because I'm skeptical about the Sky miracle? Or is it because I don't approve of cyclists crashing to gain an advantage? Is, for instance, my admiration for Cavendish some kind of cunning statement of Manx nationalism?

 

[editor]

No French cycling fan I've ever met, in real life or in forums, has ever been a Wiggins fan.

As utterly shite arguments go, that's world class stuff.

Meanwhile, in the real world:

As Bradley Wiggins heads for the Tour de France finishing line along the Champs Elysées on Sunday, the French have decided the British cyclist is the epitome of sportsmanship at its finest and fairest. So plain Monsieur Wiggins has been elevated to the ranks of "Le Gentleman Wiggins".

Wiggins, who emerged as unofficial boss of the peloton, earned his nickname after he slowed down and allowed his rival Cadel Evans, the Australian winner of last year's Tour, to repair his bike and catch up with the rest after saboteurs threw tacks at the summit of the final climb of stage 14, 38km from the finish. This was seen as the epitome of British fair play.

One French radio station declared: "If England needs an ambassador on French territory, she doesn't have to look far... he's pacing the roads of France in a yellow jersey. The man: Bradley Wiggins."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jul/22/french-love-gentleman-bradley-wiggins

 

[weepiper]

As utterly shite arguments go, that's world class stuff.

Meanwhile, in the real world:

yes yes. But Nigel hasn't met any of them.

 

[twistedAM]

But so what? British papers moan etc. Nigel accuses people on here of nationalism.

Yep, British papers are pretty nationalist.

I can't remember the TdF thread off hand but there did seem to be a lot of people supporting Wiggins. I wasn't (one Indirain is enough) but can understand why people do, especially everybody who was cycling before UK ever won anything much.

There do however seem to be people on urban who'll cheer any Brit gold...and that's mildly nationalist.

 

[weepiper]

I like Wiggins because of his character and his family background, where he's come from to get where he is now. I don't care if he's a 'boring' rider.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

As utterly shite arguments go, that's world class stuff

Go to an international cycling forum, if you don't know any French cycling fans. Ask who cheers for Wiggins. Feel free to report back the responses.

You will note that even in that Guardian article, the only comments about his actual cycling are negative.

 

[editor]

There do however seem to be people on urban who'll cheer any Brit gold...and that's mildly nationalist.

I'd say that very much depends on their attitude towards athletes from other nations winning.

 

[QueenOfGoths]

No French cycling fan I've ever met, in real life or in forums, has ever been a Wiggins fan. It's not personal and it doesn't mean that everyone hates him or won't acknowledging him doing well. It's just that he has an incredibly dull style, of a sort which never attracts neutral support. I've also almost never encountered a Denis Menchov fan, because he rides in exactly the same way.

Who cares? That always strikes me as a spurious argument/comment. If I was a sportsman I wouldn't really care if people thought my sporting style was boring as long as I was winning.

 

[twistedAM]

As utterly shite arguments go, that's world class stuff.

Meanwhile, in the real world:

I agree with you but you should have left out the crap Observer article, written by their foreign correspondent who I doubt has ever seen the inner workings of a peleton.

 

[editor]

Go to an international cycling forum, if you don't know any French cycling fans. Ask who cheers for Wiggins. Feel free to report back the responses.

Meanwhile...

French cycling fans encountered in a bar in Paris were resolutely of a pro-Wiggo persuasion.
"He is a strong rider, and he also has a good moral side," says one, referring to the moment on Sunday, when Wiggins slowed the main group of riders down, after tacks were scattered over the road, to allow those with punctures to catch up.
"That shows a man of character, but also a man of heart."

Another drinker commented: "We like the way he speaks his mind. He can express himself in a way that is shall we say... virile. That's rare these days, and it's good to see.
"Who cares if he's English! Let the best man win! In fact it's good to see an Englishman in charge. You're our oldest enemies! In any case he looks great, and we like the way he talks!"
In many ways Wiggins fulfils the expectations in France of what an Englishman ought to be like. He's seen as stylish, slightly eccentric, gentlemanly, outspoken, and humorous.

So will there be resentment in France, if Sunday's podium is topped by an Englishman? Not for a minute, says Yves Blanc.
"Let's face it, you came with some great riders, and you may end with not one on the podium, but two if Chris Froome comes second.
"On top of that, if Cavendish wins the last stage, it'll be a record fourth in a row on the Champs-Elysees for him, and he'll be on a podium too.
"We're impressed. These guys aren't cheats. No-one's going to say they stole the race. What else is there to do but applaud?"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18899902

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Who cares? That always strikes me as a spurious argument/comment. If I was a sportsman I wouldn't really care if people thought my sporting style was boring as long as I was winning.

I don't think that Wiggins should give a shit. Riding in the most boring way possible maximises his chances of winning, given his spread of talents. But from the point of view of a fan who watches for entertainment, giving a shit about how much entertainment a rider provides is pretty sensible. A lot of people cheer for riders from their own country, but the riders who gain fans more widely provide entertainment.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Meanwhile...

I'm sure you'll be able to find a number of other British media articles quoting "Yves" in a French bar telling us that he admires the sportsmanship and strength of Wiggins.

 

[editor]

Feel the hatred from the French:

But part of the French liking for the rider who has dominated their Tour for the past two weeks can be explained by the fact that he spent the first six years of his road racing career in France.
"Wiggo le froggy," read a banner headline in Saturday's l'Equipe, effectively claiming the man as their own. There is a delightful irony in this: the French have not won the Tour since Bernard Hinault secured his fifth win in 1985, and three of their best teams, Française des Jeux, Crédit Agricole and Cofidis, will all have let this year's winner slip through their grasp.

Living in France, learning French and developing a near perfect accent has enabled Wiggins to speak fluently – when he so chooses – on live television after every stage. That is in glaring contrast with Lance Armstrong, who never picked up French. Wiggins's mastery of cycling's lingua franca derived partly from a morning television programme which he used to record in his flat in Nantes, but also from his widely reported talent for mimicry. Simpson was similarly fluent in French, able to produce cultured puns and brutal put-downs alike.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jul/22/french-hail-bradley-wiggins-tour

 

[Orang Utan]

What is a boring rider?
It's not as if others ride with balloons or clown make up?

 

[editor]

I'm sure you'll be able to find a number of other British media articles quoting "Yves" in a French bar telling us that he admires the sportsmanship and strength of Wiggins.

Sorry, I'm too busy reading all the PMs of support to answer this point right now.

 

[twistedAM]

Meanwhile...

Another quote from a foreign correspondent. Philip Schofield probably has more clue than Hugh Schofield.

That sham of an article is just a few vox pops turned into a piece of quick copy.

 

[twistedAM]

I'm sure you'll be able to find a number of other British media articles quoting "Yves" in a French bar telling us that he admires the sportsmanship and strength of Wiggins.

Game over.

editor has now quoted William Fotheringham.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

What is a boring rider?
It's not as if others ride with balloons or clown make up?

Wiggins is a tempo climber who never attacks and makes up time in the time trials. That's perfectly rational given his particular talents, but it's pretty much the definition of what is meant by "a boring style" in cycling. Attacking riders are exciting. Wiggins doesn't attack on climbs, doesn't ride cobbles if he can help it, doesn't attack on the downhills. He follows wheels and then grinds along at a set pace. Therefore, like Menchov, he doesn't tend to attract neutral fans.

There are perfectly reasonable arguments in favour of Wiggins - his story, his achievements, the cleverness of his approach, some people even like his personality. But seriously, believe me, not even his biggest fans argue that he's an exciting rider.

 

[1927]

Does anyone seriously think that Wiggo gives a fuck about what the French think abou him. He'sjust won Le Tour andan Olympic gold medal, I'd be surprised if he really gave a fuck what Froome thought about him!

 

[agricola]

Does anyone seriously think that Wiggo gives a fuck about what the French think abou him. He'sjust won Le Tour andan Olympic gold medal, I'd be surprised if he really gave a fuck what Froome thought about him!

Having seen that cardigan he was wearing today, I doubt he cares what anyone thinks.

 

[Orang Utan]

Wiggins is a tempo climber who never attacks and makes up time in the time trials. That's perfectly rational given his particular talents, but it's pretty much the definition of what is meant by "a boring style" in cycling. Attacking riders are exciting. Wiggins doesn't attack on climbs, doesn't ride cobbles if he can help it, doesn't attack on the downhills. He follows wheels and then grinds along at a set pace. Therefore, like Menchov, he doesn't tend to attract neutral fans.

There are perfectly reasonable arguments in favour of Wiggins - his story, his achievements, the cleverness of his approach, some people even like his personality. But seriously, believe me, not even his biggest fans argue that he's an exciting rider.

Are you the cycling correspondent for The Morning Star?

 

[editor]

There are perfectly reasonable arguments in favour of Wiggins - his story, his achievements, the cleverness of his approach, some people even like his personality. But seriously, believe me, not even his biggest fans argue that he's an exciting rider.

And perhaps this is why:
Less exciting Tour may be indication of clean riders

 

[The Boy]

And perhaps this is why:
Less exciting Tour may be indication of clean riders

We've been told that about half a dozen times since 1998. And we still have big name riders testing positive.

I have to agree that Wiggins is a boring rider. Wouldn't give a shit if he was a French rider in with a shout of winning. But he isn't, and there isn't currently a French rider with a serious chance of winning the TdF. So as a neutral I'm gonna choose to cheer someone with a bit of an attacking mindset.

 

[Corax]

I can't for the life of me work out how someone can ride a bicycle race in an exciting manner. None of them juggle or jump through flaming hoops or anything.

Seriously, what does it mean?

 

[weepiper]

I don't get why people are seemingly surprised that Wiggins is 'boring' either. FFS he's a track rider and time triallist by trade. He just GOES VERY FAST. Having come from a background of GOING VERY FAST ROUND AND ROUND IN CIRCLES.

 

[The Boy]

I can't for the life of me work out how someone can ride a bicycle race in an exciting manner. None of them juggle or jump through flaming hoops or anything.

Seriously, what does it mean?

Solo attacks rather than sitting behind a train of team mates riding a steady tempo staring at their power meter.

 

[twistedAM]

And perhaps this is why:
Less exciting Tour may be indication of clean riders

Not convinced by that argument at all.

Was as boring as fuck when Indurain and his Banesto team employed the same tactics in the 90s. See also Armstrong and US Postal in more recent times.

It's about setting a strong team of domestics to guide you through the mountains and then winning it on a TT that makes it boring.

Also, as for the mountain breaks, Tommy Voekler did more interesting things in the mountains this year than Virenque ever did.

 

[twistedAM]

I can't for the life of me work out how someone can ride a bicycle race in an exciting manner. None of them juggle or jump through flaming hoops or anything.

Seriously, what does it mean?

Ever seen the likes of Nibali go down a mountain?