Great in theory, and I do agree, but doesn't Brexit have to be more unpopular than it is (yet), for organisation of that kind to work well?
Creating "Lexit": What is to be done?
- Thread starter chilango
- Start date
Great in theory, and I do agree, but doesn't Brexit have to be more unpopular than it is (yet), for organisation of that kind to work well?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
That seems like wishful thinking to me. I don't see any stretch in the establishment over any of this. I see a virtually unopposed r/w tory administration ploughing ahead with brexit. I see an SNP demanding indyref2, but so what? Whatever its result, how does that progress any 'progressive' interests? One layer of nationalism playing itself off against another layer of nationalism. The antithesis of w/c organisation - vertical vs horizontal.
There is never a wrong time for w/c organisation. But to see this particular time as in any way whatever propitious is, for me, to be indulging in a massive slice of wishful thinking. How is it any more than a time of desperately trying to resist retreat, to avoid something even worse than what we have now?
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Eh? No.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Only if you assume that the organisation is built on an anti-Brexit basis and I'm pretty sure danny wasn't arguing for anything like that.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
The government isn't "pushing ahead" with Brexit against nothing: it is pushing against the EU negotiations, it is having to ensure that a pro Renain business community is happy with the negotiating stance (and outcome) and so on.
If ones enemy is fighting on two other fronts, us putting more resources into a third is, in my view, a good idea. I think history shows this.
If you disagree that's fine. I have no interest in converting you. I'm giving my opinion.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
My most favourite Romain Rolland quote.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yeh i'd have to see the post firstI honestly expected Pickman's model to pick that up!
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Excuses, excuses.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I'm from Lambeth in London. There was a lot of interest IMO. My working class neighbours upstairs had remain posters for example. I found people IMO my area and people I know in London discussed it.
The stereotype is that it was a middle class liberal elite in London who supported remain. Definitely not the case where I come from. Brixton and Loughborough Junction.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Lexit makes the DM front page.
Oh.
Oh.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Jesus christ.
Treacle Toes
Time
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
When we put the clocks back at the weekend, looks like the DM just kept going...
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Even a stopped clock is far-right twice a day...
SaskiaJayne
Rural Guerrilla
So Lexit then? Tories in disarray. Probably leaving with no deal. Next majority government could be Labour with Jezza as PM. It seems like what urban always wanted. So looking good, yes? 
SaskiaJayne
Rural Guerrilla
How things change eh? In just a few months we have gone from predictions of a one party Tory state for generations with Labour reduced to a rump of just a few MPs to the real possibility of a proper left wing Labour government... & Lexit.
Come on urban. This thread should be on fire.
My impression is that - from either side of the fence - nobody has a clue what is going to happen and are bewildered. That’s even if they care, and I think more and more people are just sick and bored of it.
We’ve lurched from being - pre referendum launch - being indifferent about the EU, to being indifferent about the exit outcome.
There’ll be some passionate advocates in both camps still following every column inch (I’m in that camp) but I think everyone else has switched off.
Too big, too complex, too... tedious?
SaskiaJayne
Rural Guerrilla
Speaking to people around where I live the switching off is true enough. Those of us that keep up with current affairs on a daily basis may find it difficult to believe that many others are not really aware or even that interested. Plenty seem genuinely mystified as to why we have not left yet.
Silas Loom
Hated by both sides
Which is why predictions of blood on the streets following a reverse ferret are nonsense.
SaskiaJayne
Rural Guerrilla
Plenty that I speak to around here in north Essex/Brexitistan have never been EU fans. They didn't need convincing to vote leave, their minds had been made up for decades. Many are quite well off builders who make their money locally building extentions, installing new kitchens etc. This shows the divided society. Plenty of poverty aroud here with min wage jobs but plenty of pensioners spending their money improving their homes rather than leave it in the bank earning no interest. The builders around here are booked up months ahead with work & can charge more or less what they like. They really are doing well plenty driving new Range Rovers.
The are mostly right wingers. When a list of BNP members address was put online a few yrs ago I was not suprised to see a couple of local builders on the list. They would have been recent UKIP voters. I try to wind them up in the pub by telling them their leave vote will probably bring on a Labour government & so on & they are suprisingly subdued. I think they are worried Brexit might affect their incomes & a Corbyn government will reduce the value of the several buy to let properties many of them own. I doubt they would be out on the streets protesting if brexit did not happen or as perhaps more likely sanity prevails & free trade continues with UK continuing to pay in to EU.
The are mostly right wingers. When a list of BNP members address was put online a few yrs ago I was not suprised to see a couple of local builders on the list. They would have been recent UKIP voters. I try to wind them up in the pub by telling them their leave vote will probably bring on a Labour government & so on & they are suprisingly subdued. I think they are worried Brexit might affect their incomes & a Corbyn government will reduce the value of the several buy to let properties many of them own. I doubt they would be out on the streets protesting if brexit did not happen or as perhaps more likely sanity prevails & free trade continues with UK continuing to pay in to EU.
HoratioCuthbert
Deep seated inconsequence
Complex
Nah I feel like we are at something akin to the stage in childbirth where you've to stop pushing, there is little to be done or said on this subject that's of any use whilst people are still losing their shit. Why would a passionate person want to sit and watch the likes of @Jolyonmaughan tweet variations of the same shit 16 times a day? It's a pointless jaunt which must involve some crazy short term memory issues in order to be able to partake in it. Oh look there's Mike Galsworthy tweeting what Jolyonshite said WOW. I personally will be just putting stuff to the foodbank and collecting aid for refugees assuring myself that something political will turn up, like. Optimist! Fuck the conversation though honestly. Although Giles Fraser's twitter over last few days was hilarious.
ska invita
back on the other side
Just saw a thread on facebook with suggestions of some fairly recent (2017) lexit posts
academic piece
Forbidden fruit: The neglected political economy of Lexit
Streeck *needs putting in google translate
Europäische Union: Nicht ohne meine Nation
LEXIT-NETWORK
thecurrentmoment
and this suggested as an older good Lexit-related Remain piece
Brexit as Nostalgia for Empire
Havent read any of these yet - saving here for convenience as much as anything as easier to re-find here than on facebook. Hopefully something of interest there
academic piece
Forbidden fruit: The neglected political economy of Lexit
Streeck *needs putting in google translate
Europäische Union: Nicht ohne meine Nation
LEXIT-NETWORK
thecurrentmoment
and this suggested as an older good Lexit-related Remain piece
Brexit as Nostalgia for Empire
Havent read any of these yet - saving here for convenience as much as anything as easier to re-find here than on facebook. Hopefully something of interest there
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The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Paul Embury on Twitter is pretty good
doodlelogic
arbitrary message here
Could start by rebuilding the corporation tax base and getting rid of the rules stopping taxing multinationals properly imposed by the ECJ.
What has happened to the left when people on a site, many of whom took part in the the anti-capitalist and anti-globalisation protests of the 90s and 00s, now openly support free trade. What is worse is the assumption that supporting free trade is sanity, the implication being you have to be some type of loon to oppose it.
The above quote is a perfect example of the damaging effects of the left's cosy relationship with liberalism and the inability of some on the left to develop their own socialist approach to issues, instead simply falling back to the liberal position which seems to be the default position for so many.
SaskiaJayne
Rural Guerrilla
I think plenty would like a Corbyn government because they like what they see & hear but they really are not able to grasp the finer points of economic history going back perhaps since to the end of WW2 which does need to be understood to get a handle on where we are now & how we got here. I’ve been reading plenty of links to articles posted on this forum & reading other stuff on the websites linked to. I’ve also been reading about various people like Keynes & Friedman & others but it really is heavy going. I’m at the limit of my intellect here.
As I’ve pointed out before most folk getting on with their busy lives earning a living to feed & keep roof over the heads of themselves & family are more concerned with here & now. They see the tories tearing themselves apart over brexit & totally distracted from day to issues that affect people on lower incomes & it all seems that the country is getting nowhere totally bogged down with brexit. I think most folks just want it to go away & the government get on with solving problems that directly affect them.
So back to the art of the possible. However brexit is resolved this country needs a Corbyn labour government with policies that are doable & help people on low incomes particularly with affordable good housing. That would be a start & the left can go from there but they have to take the people with them.
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