Creating "Lexit": What is to be done?

[chilango]

As the Brexit process gathers pace, what opportunities - however small - might open up for us?

I'm interested in what discussions might open up? And where?

What action can we organise? and how?

Can we learn from the referendum in Scotland?

Note to Contributors: This thread hasn't been created to debate the rights and wrongs of the Brexit vote nor of those that voted for (or against) it.

It's too discuss what we can do with it now.

It's also assumed that contributors to the thread are interested in trying to create social change from a "left" or pro-w/c perspective.

If this doesn't apply please use more appropriate threads to contribute to.

Thanks.

 

[Supine]

It's also assumed that contributors to the thread are interested in trying to create social change from a "left" or pro-w/c perspective.

If this doesn't apply please use more appropriate threads to contribute to.

Thanks.

Bubble

 

[chilango]

Bubble

*sighs*

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Short answer: Don't know.

Slightly longer answer:

The most immediate concern I see is the way that the vote last year has been spun as an anti-immigration mandate, first by the Tories and now increasingly by Labour. Somehow, however one voted last year needs to be put to one side to tackle what brexit has evolved to mean in mainstream political discourse. Immigration was not on the ballot paper.

I'm pretty depressed by the idea of a tory-managed brexit, tbh. I see various attacks on labour and reforms of the tax system as they race to the bottom and chase new trade deals. I'm not sure how much has changed really, in terms of opposing that, but I would seek an internationalist response to it, not a response that tacitly accepts some kind of Trumpesque 'Britain-first' position. Support immigrants. Support refugees. Oppose the usual tory shit. Advocate the same things as before really, in terms of housing, education, public ownership, and work, in short, socialist things, paying attention to those who feel left out and voted brexit but without giving in to the impulse to accept the UKIP narrative that somehow their problems are the fault of foreigners rather than the fault of rich British people who don't give a fuck about them.

My immediate concern atm is to support those who feel like they're being pushed out of Britain by this shit. Beyond that, I really don't know.

 

[The39thStep]

Short answer: Don't know.

Slightly longer answer:

The most immediate concern I see is the way that the vote last year has been spun as an anti-immigration mandate, first by the Tories and now increasingly by Labour. Somehow, however one voted last year needs to be put to one side to tackle what brexit has evolved to mean in mainstream political discourse. Immigration was not on the ballot paper.

I'm pretty depressed by the idea of a tory-managed brexit, tbh. I see various attacks on labour and reforms of the tax system as they race to the bottom and chase new trade deals. I'm not sure how much has changed really, in terms of opposing that, but I would seek an internationalist response to it, not a response that tacitly accepts some kind of Trumpesque 'Britain-first' position. Support immigrants. Support refugees. Oppose the usual tory shit. Advocate the same things as before really, in terms of housing, education, public ownership, and work, in short, socialist things, paying attention to those who feel left out and voted brexit but without giving in to the impulse to accept the UKIP narrative that somehow their problems are the fault of foreigners rather than the fault of rich British people who don't give a fuck about them.

My immediate concern atm is to support those who feel like they're being pushed out of Britain by this shit. Beyond that, I really don't know.

The perception that the EU rather than the the UK controlled immigration was a key issue fo those who voted Brexit and was therefore on the ballot paper .

 

[Pickman's model]

Short answer: Don't know.

Slightly longer answer:

The most immediate concern I see is the way that the vote last year has been spun as an anti-immigration mandate, first by the Tories and now increasingly by Labour. Somehow, however one voted last year needs to be put to one side to tackle what brexit has evolved to mean in mainstream political discourse. Immigration was not on the ballot paper.

I'm pretty depressed by the idea of a tory-managed brexit, tbh. I see various attacks on labour and reforms of the tax system as they race to the bottom and chase new trade deals. I'm not sure how much has changed really, in terms of opposing that, but I would seek an internationalist response to it, not a response that tacitly accepts some kind of Trumpesque 'Britain-first' position. Support immigrants. Support refugees. Oppose the usual tory shit. Advocate the same things as before really, in terms of housing, education, public ownership, and work, in short, socialist things, paying attention to those who feel left out and voted brexit but without giving in to the impulse to accept the UKIP narrative that somehow their problems are the fault of foreigners rather than the fault of rich British people who don't give a fuck about them.

My immediate concern atm is to support those who feel like they're being pushed out of Britain by this shit. Beyond that, I really don't know.

So a less immediate concern the fate of Britons abroad in the EU. Why don't you place the interests of foreign EU nationals in this country on a par with UK nationals resident elsewhere in the EU?

 

[ferrelhadley]

Excellent idea. Campaign for something then about 9 months after the vote comes in ask "so like what are we supposed to be doing again?"

Lets be honest. You will have zero impact on the "Brexit process" and it will largely be various factions of the tory party fighting with the EU as to how things pan out.
"Lexit" voters are totally irrelevant.

 

[SpookyFrank]

So a less immediate concern the fate of Britons abroad in the EU. Why don't you place the interests of foreign EU nationals in this country on a par with UK nationals resident elsewhere in the EU?

So far nobody is being forced to leave anywhere, but I can see why EU nationals living here might feel a greater threat than UK nationals elsewhere in Europe. The British have a long history of going wherever the fuck they like and expecting to be accommodated, I doubt your typical Polish person in the UK has that same ingrained cultural arrogance to hide behind. Also there have been no reports of a massive spike in attacks on British folk abroad since last June, migrants living in the UK have not been so lucky.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Excellent idea. Campaign for something then about 9 months after the vote comes in ask "so like what are we supposed to be doing again?"

Lets be honest. You will have zero impact on the "Brexit process" and it will largely be various factions of the tory party fighting with the EU as to how things pan out.
"Lexit" voters are totally irrelevant.

Read the italicised bit in the OP.

 

[ferrelhadley]

Read the italicised bit in the OP.

Lol
Months after advocating a vote the buffoons are like "fuck what do we do("but not one question us for being so clueless)"

Welcome to the grown ups world.
You voted to put the Tory right in charge of the country. Suck it up and stop fantasising you will have any influence.

 

[xenon]

For a start arguing for the absolute right for those EU citizens currently here with families and so on to remain here. That legislation for workers rights, such as it is, minimum wage applies to us all. Excepting that some people have found the demographic shift difficult to deal with and this is not necessarily because they are racist or xenophobic. That in any case, the housing cricis is not about EU migration.

I know these have been discussed before. I am posting off The cuff. But these arguments we still need to have day to day IRL.

 

[xenon]

Excellent idea. Campaign for something then about 9 months after the vote comes in ask "so like what are we supposed to be doing again?"

Lets be honest. You will have zero impact on the "Brexit process" and it will largely be various factions of the tory party fighting with the EU as to how things pan out.
"Lexit" voters are totally irrelevant.

Depends who you are talking to.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Lexit, lol.

As much a fantasy now as it ever was. Slow handclap.

 

[Red Cat]

There was a request in the op that people who aren't interested in the question don't contribute to the thread.

 

[xenon]

Wanki politician phrase I know but we are where we are. What are we going to do about it.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

For the foreseeable future "Lexit" is a pipedream as far as I can tell. Some things to make this shit situation a bit less shit might include

(1) Campaigning to ensure the rights of EU citizens, including rights of residence, are protected. See e.g. the3million | preserving the rights of EU citizens living in the UK
(2) Taking action to ensure that workers rights protected at EU level are not rolled back Working people must not pay the price of Brexit

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Lexit, lol.

As much a fantasy now as it ever was. Slow handclap.

Call it something else, then. The same problem remains. My reading of this thread was that it was an attempt to go beyond how we voted last year. Doesn't matter now.

It is clearly the case that the tories are in charge and likely to remain in charge of the entire process. On that narrow point, you are right. Still leaves the question: now what?

 

[SpookyFrank]

There was a request in the op that people who aren't interested in the question don't contribute to the thread.

But surely it's much more constructive to submerge the question in an avalance of, 'lol, you fucking stupid fucking twats, look how fucking stupid you are you stupid twats' type content?

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Call it something else, then. The same problem remains. My reading of this thread was that it was an attempt to go beyond how we voted last year. Doesn't matter now.

It is clearly the case that the tories are in charge and likely to remain in charge of the entire process. On that narrow point, you are right. Still leaves the question: now what?

Whatever the fuck we like, fuck all is going to change. We lost.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

For the foreseeable future "Lexit" is a pipedream as far as I can tell. Some things to make this shit situation a bit less shit might include

(1) Campaigning to ensure the rights of EU citizens, including rights of residence, are protected. See e.g. the3million | preserving the rights of EU citizens living in the UK
(2) Taking action to ensure that workers rights protected at EU level are not rolled back Working people must not pay the price of Brexit

I tend to agree. Case by case, try to deal with the shit. And yes, it isn't lexit. Lexit was never on the table. I think it's valid for people to say that - you can't just limit a thread to those who thought it was possible. My position is basically one of damage-limitation.

 

[Red Cat]

Who was limiting the thread to those who thought it was possible? That wasn't what was said was it?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Who was limiting the thread to those who thought it was possible? That wasn't what was said was it?

The title of the thread is 'creating lexit: what is to be done'. From my point of view and that of a lot of others, that is not possible. Brexit is being managed by the tories, and it is going to be some form of rexit.

 

[Red Cat]

The title of the thread is 'creating lexit: what is to be done'. From my point of view and that of a lot of others, that is not possible. Brexit is being managed by the tories, and it is going to be some form of rexit.

So read the whole post, which is much more nuanced than that. The most important word in the title is creating.

I don't have any answers but I think its a good question.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

So read the whole post, which is much more nuanced than that. The most important word in the title is creating.

I don't have any answers but I think its a good question.

Ok fair enough. And I'm trying to resist posting like bees is posting. But I do see a bleak picture. I also don't really have any answers.

 

[Red Cat]

I suppose what's crucial is seeing this process as something that isn't static, brexit is not a thing, it's relations between people, it does feel stuck, and inevitably bleak, but there's always movement, one way or the other. We're not dead.

 

[twentythreedom]

All that remains left to do is to take a massive shit in a tesco carrier bag and leave it on the doorstep of No. 10

 

[xenon]

The Right can't even agree what Brexit supposed to mean. The same arguments for workers rights, anti exploitation, cronyism, still apply. It's just a different backdrop. And actually it has Thrown some things into Sharp relief. Same goes for Trump. And increasing realisation about mechanisation automation of labour.

 

[chilango]

Lol
Months after advocating a vote the buffoons are like "fuck what do we do("but not one question us for being so clueless)"

Welcome to the grown ups world.
You voted to put the Tory right in charge of the country. Suck it up and stop fantasising you will have any influence.

I voted Remain fwiw.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

I'm trying to resist posting like bees is posting

I wish I could be more optimistic. But the left, in this country at least, is utterly fucked. That some people can even think of Brexit in left wing terms shows how bloody deluded they are.

 

[danny la rouge]

The Right can't even agree what Brexit supposed to mean.

That the establishment is in disarray is an opportunity that isn't currently being used. The CBI, the majority of businesses, the rich and powerful overwhelmingly supported Remain. The government hasn't remotely got its act together. This undeniably opens up space for action.

The problem is that the left is in disarray as well. We need to get our act together quicker than they do.

What's needed is something to focus on, similar to Fight for $15 in the US.