Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[Mr Retro]

Got it. Everybody just needs to know with 100% certainty if they have an infection or not, then the ones that know with certainty that they are not infected don’t need to wear a mask. Sounds easy.

I'm not sure how you came up with that from my post but OK

 

[Dystopiary]

Blood Cancer UK on vaccines:

 

[bimble]

I'm not sure how you came up with that from my post but OK

Really?
your post was about, there’s no point in people wearing masks unless they’re infected . It’s like you haven’t understood what the masks are for at all? Maybe that’s what the problem is idk.

 

[kabbes]

I'm not sure how you came up with that from my post but OK

Because that’s what that advice says. Did you not actually read it?

 

[Storm Fox]

Nature Seems to disagree with Mr Retro.

Face masks: what the data say

The science supports that face coverings are saving lives during the coronavirus pandemic, and yet the debate trundles on. How much evidence is enough?

www.nature.com

As does the university of California

Still Confused About Masks? Here’s the Science Behind How Face Masks Prevent Coronavirus

We talked to UCSF epidemiologist George Rutherford, MD, and infectious disease specialist Peter Chin-Hong, MD, about the CDC’s reversal on mask-wearing, the current science on how masks work, and what to consider when choosing a mask.

www.ucsf.edu

As does PNAS

An evidence review of face masks against COVID-19

The science around the use of masks by the public to impede COVID-19 transmission is advancing rapidly. In this narrative review, we develop an analytical framework to examine mask usage, synthesizing the relevant literature to inform multiple areas: population impact, transmission...

www.pnas.org

And the CDC

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.

www.cdc.gov

And many many more.

 

[StoneRoad]

Retro dude is quoting out-dated opinions, made when there was a shortage of the masks and other PPE most suitable for social care / medical situations and the official line was that transmission was mostly by touching surfaces.

Now, recent experience & studies have shown that transmission is largely by aerosol / droplets - which are reduced or stopped by masks plus, the supply chain has caught up with demand and PPE is available ...
So, WHO and others are promoting mask wearing as part of a wider infection control strategy.

No. I'm not going to trawl back and find the links ...
e2a especially as Storm Fox ,thanks mate, has neatly summarised them !

 

[belboid]

The initial advice was less than wholly enthusiastic about masks, but it wasn’t due to being uncertain as to whether they could inhibit infections per se, it was because of the importance of the stress they were (rightly) putting on stay the fuck at home.

Not having face to face contact was vastly more useful than going out in a mask and so their limitations were stressed. Once people started following the stay the fuck at home guidance, more stress was put on the value of mask wearing in situations where going out was necessary.

 

[pug]

Not to mention acting like the rest of us must enjoy the restrictions, as if we haven't also got families, friends, jobs and social lives that have been affected by all this. One of my Twitter followers was saying yesterday if he sees anyone wearing a mask after 19th July, he'll personally rip it off their face (assault). And that he hates anyone wearing masks outside because he sees it as virtue signalling and thinks they're judging him (judgmental in and of itself). I've unfollowed and blocked him, I'm sick of that shite popping up in my mentions.

Also, I've always considered myself a fairly strong-minded person and, although not anti-authority for the sake of it, I've never been afraid to challenge authority if I think they're wrong. So I resent people like that making me out to be a "sheep" or a "bedwetter" for trying to be considerate of my fellow human beings.

he thinks other people by wearing a mask are judging him
What else do other people do which make him feel judged?
What a fucking knob.

 

[existentialist]

I'm not sure how you came up with that from my post but OK

No, I don't suppose you are. Sure, that is. I suspect kabbes would have to dumb his post down a hundredfold, AND write it in a fist-held crayon, to stand even the slightest chance of your getting any kind of clue.

 

[sheothebudworths]

From the daily dashboard -

14 July 2021
Because of a processing issue, today's update is delayed.

UK figures for 14 July 2021: 42,302 new cases | 49 new deaths within 28 days of a positive test |

46,037,090 people have now received the first dose of a vaccine | 35,155,767 have received a 2nd dose.

 

[editor]

This is simply untrue. Until we decided to copy China the advise was masks don't work:

• World Health Organisation: ‘There is currently no evidence that wearing a mask (whether medical or other types) by healthy persons in the wider community setting, including universal community masking, can protect them from infection with respiratory viruses, including Covid-19.’
• Mike Ryan a director at WHO: ‘There is no specific evidence to suggest that the wearing of masks by the mass population has any potential benefit. In fact, there’s some evidence to suggest the opposite in the misuse of wearing a mask properly or fitting it properly.’
• Chris Whitty: ‘In terms of wearing a mask, our advice is clear: that wearing a mask if you don’t have an infection reduces the risk almost not at all . So we do not advise that.’

The only gold standard RCT Danmask-19 concluded since these quotes found outcomes between those wearing masks and those not was ‘not statistically significant’. So you can keep insisting masks work and I can keep saying they don't but to say the argument they work is won is simply wrong.

Misleading, outdated advice. Your WHO quote is over a year old.

Here's what the WHO say:

Masks should be used as part of a comprehensive strategy of measures to suppress transmission and save lives; the use of a mask alone is not sufficient to provide an adequate level of protection against COVID-19.

If COVID-19 is spreading in your community, stay safe by taking some simple precautions, such as physical distancing, wearing a mask, keeping rooms well ventilated, avoiding crowds, cleaning your hands, and coughing into a bent elbow or tissue. Check local advice where you live and work. Do it all!

Make wearing a mask a normal part of being around other people. The appropriate use, storage and cleaning or disposal of masks are essential to make them as effective as possible.

When and how to use masks

WHO's guidance and advice on the use of masks to protect against and limit the spread of COVID-19.

www.who.int

Fact check: WHO recommends mask-wearing to prevent COVID-19 spread

An online article is spreading the baseless claim that the World Health Organization changed its guidance on mask-wearing.

eu.usatoday.com

The Chris Witty quote is also well over a year old. Why are you posting up such obviously misleading information?

Even though we're going out of lockdown he is still saying he will wear a mask:

Professor Chris Whitty, the government’s Chief Medical Adviser, later set out the three scenarios in which he would continue to wear a mask once the rules are lifted: in crowded indoor spaces; if required to do so by “any competent authority”; and when doing so will make others feel more comfortable.

Chris Whitty on the three times we should still wear a mask after July 19

Professor Whitty said he will continue to wear a mask in crowded indoor spaces; if required to do so by ‘any competent authority’; and when doing so will make others feel more comfortable

www.independent.co.uk

 

[bimble]

he thinks other people by wearing a mask are judging him
What else do other people do which make him feel judged?
What a fucking knob.

Thought that was interesting that bit.
So if this dude sees someone walking along outdoors with a mask on he immediately reckons they are being all sanctimonious and superior.

Sometimes (occasionally) i notice people here in the park walking along alone with loads of space all around them wearing a mask and i do find it weird but my assumption is that they're just really fckin scared of the virus, like irrationally afraid. So we're all wandering about projecting meanings onto other people's mask / no mask behaviours.

 

[LeytonCatLady]

he thinks other people by wearing a mask are judging him
What else do other people do which make him feel judged?
What a fucking knob.

Oh, that attitude is depressingly common. It's why you get so many stories about people's friends trying to sabotage their diets, or their efforts at giving up smoking. My ex-colleague I mentioned earlier used to bring in a pack of Jammie Dodgers every day and offer them round. Sometimes we'd fancy one, sometimes we wouldn't but she'd get so offended if you declined, demanding "WHY?" I told a friend about it, and she said "Maybe she thought you were fat shaming her." I hadn't thought of it that way, but I think that could be why some people take other people's choices personally and make it about themselves. "How dare you be different AT me!"

 

[killer b]

Misleading, outdated advice. Your WHO quote is over a year old.

Here's what the WHO say:

Fact check: WHO recommends mask-wearing to prevent COVID-19 spread

An online article is spreading the baseless claim that the World Health Organization changed its guidance on mask-wearing.

eu.usatoday.com

The Chris Witty quote is also well over a year old. Why are you posting up such obviously misleading information?

Even though we're going out of lockdown he is still saying he will wear a mask:

Chris Whitty on the three times we should still wear a mask after July 19

Professor Whitty said he will continue to wear a mask in crowded indoor spaces; if required to do so by ‘any competent authority’; and when doing so will make others feel more comfortable

www.independent.co.uk

he knows all this, cause he's been told it multiple times - but then he reappears the next day to post the same ratlicking stuff, basically the same post over and over. I think the covid threads would be much better without him disrupting them tbh, it's the only thing he's here for.

 

[two sheds]

Yes totally - he's brought this old stuff up before and it was explained/dismissed before.

 

[existentialist]

Misleading, outdated advice. Your WHO quote is over a year old.

Here's what the WHO say:

Fact check: WHO recommends mask-wearing to prevent COVID-19 spread

An online article is spreading the baseless claim that the World Health Organization changed its guidance on mask-wearing.

eu.usatoday.com

The Chris Witty quote is also well over a year old. Why are you posting up such obviously misleading information?

Even though we're going out of lockdown he is still saying he will wear a mask:

Chris Whitty on the three times we should still wear a mask after July 19

Professor Whitty said he will continue to wear a mask in crowded indoor spaces; if required to do so by ‘any competent authority’; and when doing so will make others feel more comfortable

www.independent.co.uk

At this rate, you're going to get yourself accused of "confusing me with the facts"

 

[existentialist]

Oh, that attitude is depressingly common. It's why you get so many stories about people's friends trying to sabotage their diets, or their efforts at giving up smoking. My ex-colleague I mentioned earlier used to bring in a pack of Jammie Dodgers every day and offer them round. Sometimes we'd fancy one, sometimes we wouldn't but she'd get so offended if you declined, demanding "WHY?" I told a friend about it, and she said "Maybe she thought you were fat shaming her." I hadn't thought of it that way, but I think that could be why some people take other people's choices personally and make it about themselves. "How dare you be different AT me!"

I think that people sometimes forget that everything isn't always all about them

 

[Yossarian]

Misleading, outdated advice. Your WHO quote is over a year old.

Yep, some incorrect advice was given in March 2020, way back in the early months of the pandemic - for some reason anti-maskers have chosen to treat that advice like it was handed down carved in stone tablets and ignore everything that has been learned in the last 15 months.

 

[Supine]

This is simply untrue. Until we decided to copy China the advise was masks don't work:

• World Health Organisation: ‘There is currently no evidence that wearing a mask (whether medical or other types) by healthy persons in the wider community setting, including universal community masking, can protect them from infection with respiratory viruses, including Covid-19.’
• Mike Ryan a director at WHO: ‘There is no specific evidence to suggest that the wearing of masks by the mass population has any potential benefit. In fact, there’s some evidence to suggest the opposite in the misuse of wearing a mask properly or fitting it properly.’
• Chris Whitty: ‘In terms of wearing a mask, our advice is clear: that wearing a mask if you don’t have an infection reduces the risk almost not at all . So we do not advise that.’

The only gold standard RCT Danmask-19 concluded since these quotes found outcomes between those wearing masks and those not was ‘not statistically significant’. So you can keep insisting masks work and I can keep saying they don't but to say the argument they work is won is simply wrong.

You are using quotes from the early days of the pandemic when it simply wasn’t known if covid was aerosolised. It didn’t take long in 2020 for science to do its job and to come to a conclusion. Since that was done all the people quoted have changed their minds to reflect the science. You should too.

 

[editor]

he knows all this, cause he's been told it multiple times - but then he reappears the next day to post the same ratlicking stuff, basically the same post over and over. I think the covid threads would be much better without him disrupting them tbh, it's the only thing he's here for.

I'm kicking him off this thread. Urban has been an absolutely essential oasis of non-loon, science-based discussion since the beginning of this pandemic, and I'm keeping it that way.

It is weird how these people can get so lost in their own conspiracy fuckwittery that they think its fine to completely ignore all scientific developments from the last year and dishonestly repost old quotes.

 

[killer b]

cheers!

 

[Dystopiary]

.

 

[LeytonCatLady]

Had people trying to spike me (I'm vegetarian) with meat when I was pregnant.

What the fuck? That's outrageous! People like that make me ashamed to be a meat eater. Why would anyone try to force an adult to eat something they don't like? (I don't think it's right to do it to kids either, but that's a whole other rant). I think that's why so many people claim to be allergic when they're not, because apparently that's the only acceptable reason for not wanting to eat something. Why can't we normalise just not liking things?

 

[andysays]

I'm kicking him off this thread. Urban has been an absolutely essential oasis of non-loon, science-based discussion since the beginning of this pandemic, and I'm keeping it that way.

It is weird how these people can get so lost in their own conspiracy fuckwittery that they think its fine to completely ignore all scientific developments from the last year and dishonestly repost old quotes.

I was just about to say, I like a barney as much as anyone, but this is a serious thread about a serious life and death issue and I don't think we ought to give this twat any opportunity to obscure or divert the conversation in the way they've been doing.

Thanks for taking action.

 

[Dystopiary]

What the fuck? That's outrageous! People like that make me ashamed to be a meat eater. Why would anyone try to force an adult to eat something they don't like? (I don't think it's right to do it to kids either, but that's a whole other rant). I think that's why so many people claim to be allergic when they're not, because apparently that's the only acceptable reason for not wanting to eat something. Why can't we normalise just not liking things?

It's like what's being said for sure, people's decisions can get taken like an attack on them somehow.

 

[existentialist]

What the fuck? That's outrageous! People like that make me ashamed to be a meat eater. Why would anyone try to force an adult to eat something they don't like? (I don't think it's right to do it to kids either, but that's a whole other rant). I think that's why so many people claim to be allergic when they're not, because apparently that's the only acceptable reason for not wanting to eat something. Why can't we normalise just not liking things?

My mother used to pull that stunt. "Oh, did you like that <food thing>?" Me: "Yes" Her: "It had meat in it" <smug self-satisfied look>. I suspect that, without stunts like that hardening my attitude, I'd probably be eating meat now.

 

[two sheds]

What the fuck? That's outrageous! People like that make me ashamed to be a meat eater. Why would anyone try to force an adult to eat something they don't like? (I don't think it's right to do it to kids either, but that's a whole other rant).

Totally - and not just something they don't like but something they are making a (possibly) ethical decision about and could quite understandably find meat revolting.

My ex didn't even like using plates that had also been used for meat which I fully understood - we ate vege at home and I nipped off into town for my weekly bacon & egg fix, and cleaned my teeth when I got home .

 

[sheothebudworths]

'based on mathematical modelling' suggests they are looking at population level effect but based on some assumptions about what a mask actually does in real life... I guess I'm curious to know how strong the evidence is there.

I know this isn't exactly what you're asking (around benefits of face masks in the general population) but I did read this the other day (and not peer reviewed, so just for interest) -

Cambridge hospital’s mask upgrade appears to eliminate Covid risk to staff

Hospital infection study shows use of FFP3 respirators at Addenbrooke’s ‘may have cut ward-based infection to zero’

www.theguardian.com

 

[xenon]

I'm not sure how you came up with that from my post but OK

that is because you are thick. and wilfully so I reckon. Masks of course do nothing to protect anyone from you if you don’t have the infection. The point is there are so many asymptomatic cases you can’t know unless you just had a test a highly reliable one, that you aren’t carrying coronavirus. at the beginning of this it wasn’t known how high proportion of cases were asymptomatic.

 

[Yossarian]

You are using quotes from the early days of the pandemic when it simply wasn’t known if covid was aerosolised. It didn’t take long in 2020 for science to do its job and to come to a conclusion. Since that was done all the people quoted have changed their minds to reflect the science. You should too.

It's like arguing that scientists don't even know whether this mysterious new virus from Wuhan can be transmitted between people.