Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[Pickman's model]

i think this is stupid. There's no need to look for such machinations, they're not even that rational as to be doing it to make money.

That's really fucking stupid. Out of curiosity who do you think makes money when bits of the NHS are privatised? When private companies provide NHS services?

 

[bimble]

You said they’ve “decided that the way to smash the nhs” is to let infections run riot. Whatever. I think that’s a daft conspiracy theory.

 

[StoneRoad]

The tory sh1tcunt5 will find ways to claim everything needs to be sold off, mostly to their mates - who will then give them directorships even before they leave the HoC. They've got form for this ...
And I include the NHS in that prediction, as the twunts have sold off most of the family silver and artworks already ...

Whether the NHS will collapse (enough) for this arseovertit policy to work depends on how much influence the CRG & other backbenchers have over b0j0 compared to the "scientists" and hence how bad this wave / a winter wave gets - like the stupidly murderous nature of the current "policy" creating a vax-escaping mutant virus.

 

[MrSki]

The NHS bill the had its second reading yesterday allows for NHS contracts not to be put out for tender & just be awarded. What could be wrong with that?

 

[glitch hiker]

Local buses have had a lot of problems it seems recently with 'operational issues'. I'm just going to assume that's because staff are having to self isolate. Now they don't come out and say this so I'm having to assume, but should they?

 

[teuchter]

You said they’ve “decided that the way to smash the nhs” is to let infections run riot. Whatever. I think that’s a daft conspiracy theory.

I agree, it's conspiracy nonsense.

 

[Pickman's model]

You said they’ve “decided that the way to smash the nhs” is to let infections run riot. Whatever. I think that’s a daft conspiracy theory.

I see you're shifting your position

It seems to me to be what they're doing. NHS staff are demoralised and exhausted. All their hard work isn't valued by the government, who feel the doctors and nurses should be chuffed with 1% when inflation's rather more than that

Lots of people have clearly told the government of the consequences of going ahead with the removal of restrictions. Of the danger of overwhelming the NHS. Of the risk of new variants. Javid has been told waiting lists could reach 13 million. What happens to the NHS in the next period of the pandemic is a deliberate choice by the government who cannot complain no one warned them of possible consequences.

A lot of NHS staff are, apparently, considering leaving. A lot have left. There are over 100,000 nursing vacancies alone. Before shortfalls in doctors and ancillary staff are considered. I can't see staff retention being improved by government decisions like relaxing restrictions.

And the upshot of this is that private companies will see desperate patients turning to them, as dentists are apparently with their backlog. I can't see this as other than a deliberate policy as the government have been clearly told of the risks they're running with a health service already long underfunded and being privatised

I've explained my view at some length while you've simply said you disagree without offering any counter argument. I don't think you have such a thing, but I'd like to be proved wrong. Don't suppose I will be tho.

 

[Thora]

I tried to book a pcr test today and the nearest test sites available to me are in Newport and Caerleon (I live in Wiltshire) - not a good sign, is it

 

[MrSki]

This is Jon Trickett from yesterday's debate.

 

[Riklet]

I tried to book a pcr test today and the nearest test sites available to me are in Newport and Caerleon (I live in Wiltshire) - not a good sign, is it

Hope youre ok Thora!

Can you order one online? Might well come tomorrow.

 

[bimble]

I see you're shifting your position

It seems to me to be what they're doing. NHS staff are demoralised and exhausted. All their hard work isn't valued by the government, who feel the doctors and nurses should be chuffed with 1% when inflation's rather more than that

Lots of people have clearly told the government of the consequences of going ahead with the removal of restrictions. Of the danger of overwhelming the NHS. Of the risk of new variants. Javid has been told waiting lists could reach 13 million. What happens to the NHS in the next period of the pandemic is a deliberate choice by the government who cannot complain no one warned them of possible consequences.

A lot of NHS staff are, apparently, considering leaving. A lot have left. There are over 100,000 nursing vacancies alone. Before shortfalls in doctors and ancillary staff are considered. I can't see staff retention being improved by government decisions like relaxing restrictions.

And the upshot of this is that private companies will see desperate patients turning to them, as dentists are apparently with their backlog. I can't see this as other than a deliberate policy as the government have been clearly told of the risks they're running with a health service already long underfunded and being privatised

I've explained my view at some length while you've simply said you disagree without offering any counter argument. I don't think you have such a thing, but I'd like to be proved wrong. Don't suppose I will be tho.

I haven’t changed my view at all, still think you posted a silly conspiracy theory.
This is not any kind of explanation for why we have this Freedom Day.
Why on earth would they require it to get more broken before continuing to sell bits off anyway but, think as you like of course there is no need for us to agree.

 

[Thora]

Hope youre ok Thora!

Can you order one online? Might well come tomorrow.

I'm pretty fine, I have a headache and sore throat (and itchy eyes but think that is hayfever) so the Zoe app asked me to do a pcr test.

I actually have a spare one here that we didn't use from a couple of months ago, do you think I can still use that or do they expire?

 

[MrSki]

I'm pretty fine, I have a headache and sore throat (and itchy eyes but think that is hayfever) so the Zoe app asked me to do a pcr test.

I actually have a spare one here that we didn't use from a couple of months ago, do you think I can still use that or do they expire?

They expire I think. Get one posted.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I'm pretty fine, I have a headache and sore throat (and itchy eyes but think that is hayfever) so the Zoe app asked me to do a pcr test.

I actually have a spare one here that we didn't use from a couple of months ago, do you think I can still use that or do they expire?

There should be an expiry date on it.

 

[Numbers]

This is Jon Trickett from yesterday's debate.

I kept thinking why does he keep reaching for his heart.

 

[Pickman's model]

I haven’t changed my view at all, still think you posted a silly conspiracy theory.
This is not any kind of explanation for why we have this Freedom Day. For a start why on earth would they require it to get more broken before continuing to sell bits off anyway makes no sense to me.

i don't know why we're having this 'freedom day'. because any normal way you look at it it is very fuckwitted. we know - the government has told us - that the virus will run rampant through the population. but they're going ahead with it anyway. we know - doctors and health academics have told us - that this will cause great problems for the nhs. we also know that as a result of this waiting lists will rise. and they're already at record levels.

and this is i feel why they want to get more broken. not before they continue to sell bits off but as they do. because what's required for a wholesale and really obvious privatisation is demand for 'something to be done'. for the public service to fall short. for people to need to go private to receive the treatment they need. for this to happen in sizeable numbers. the demand needs to be there, both in terms of wanting something done, and in needing something done.

the 'protect the nhs' slogan, which suggested some concern for the service, is now withdrawn. the government is deliberately going down a path which health professionals and experts warn will overwhelm it. so who benefits from such a thing? it's not a conspiracy theory when it is accompanied by legislation for privatisation. and if your only objection to my view is it's a conspiracy theory when the fucking thing is going on in front of your eyes then you're either blind or stupid.

 

[bimble]

Oh I see, it’s not ok to disagree with you. I’m stupid & blind then , off out, carry on.

 

[Fruitloop]

Did they not do this with pretty much every other public service they intended to sell off; run it down until it was obviously shit, to weaken the opposition they knew that they would face.

 

[Pickman's model]

Oh I see, it’s not ok to disagree with you. I’m stupid & blind then , off out, carry on.

it's absolutely fine to disagree with me. but if your only objection is that it's a conspiracy theory when the fucking thing is happening in front of your eyes - then you're either blind or stupid. if you've some actual grounds for your view then post them up.

 

[zahir]

I tried to book a pcr test today and the nearest test sites available to me are in Newport and Caerleon (I live in Wiltshire) - not a good sign, is it

It looks like there's a wider problem:

 

[lazythursday]

i don't know why we're having this 'freedom day'. because any normal way you look at it it is very fuckwitted. we know - the government has told us - that the virus will run rampant through the population. but they're going ahead with it anyway. we know - doctors and health academics have told us - that this will cause great problems for the nhs. we also know that as a result of this waiting lists will rise. and they're already at record levels.

and this is i feel why they want to get more broken. not before they continue to sell bits off but as they do. because what's required for a wholesale and really obvious privatisation is demand for 'something to be done'. for the public service to fall short. for people to need to go private to receive the treatment they need. for this to happen in sizeable numbers. the demand needs to be there, both in terms of wanting something done, and in needing something done.

the 'protect the nhs' slogan, which suggested some concern for the service, is now withdrawn. the government is deliberately going down a path which health professionals and experts warn will overwhelm it. so who benefits from such a thing? it's not a conspiracy theory when it is accompanied by legislation for privatisation. and if your only objection to my view is it's a conspiracy theory when the fucking thing is going on in front of your eyes then you're either blind or stupid.

I'm not so sure about this. I think they have a kind of magical belief in the vaccines and the NHS ability to cope. Of course the Tories and their friends in private healthcare will use any crisis to increase the role of the private sector, but that's not the same thing as deliberately creating a situation in order to further an ideological goal. It's a bit like when the covid-denier crowd claim that the crisis was invented to benefit Amazon or the cashless economy - these are consequences of capital responding to a crisis situation, not evidence that a situation was engineered to cause a shift in the economy.

 

[bimble]

Was supposed to go to a concert thing indoors in Hackney this eve but just feels impossible for me at the moment, to go and enjoy that. Making excuses that don’t sound like ‘i think you’re irresponsible to be hosting this right now ’ is a bit awkward.

 

[glitch hiker]

Is he coming down from something?

 

[gentlegreen]

Is he coming down from something?

They think it's all over ...

 

[elbows]

It looks like there's a wider problem:

We are well into a period where it would be expected that the test system would start to struggle with demand.

Attempts to fully pin this down might be tricky because that test booking/availability system is updated a lot, and where no tests are available at one moment, there might be some available a short while later that same day.

I expect the delays to contact tracing and cases showing up in published data has probably started to grow too.

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm not so sure about this. I think they have a kind of magical belief in the vaccines and the NHS ability to cope. Of course the Tories and their friends in private healthcare will use any crisis to increase the role of the private sector, but that's not the same thing as deliberately creating a situation in order to further an ideological goal. It's a bit like when the covid-denier crowd claim that the crisis was invented to benefit Amazon or the cashless economy - these are consequences of capital responding to a crisis situation, not evidence that a situation was engineered to cause a shift in the economy.

i think the vaccine creates the conditions for the scheme to work because of the great reduction in the numbers of dead - that severing that link between cases and deaths hides the most obvious consequences of the pandemic. however, i think this is deliberately creating a situation to further an ideological goal - because they have received clear warnings of possible consequences of going ahead as they are. i don't think this is capital responding but boris johnson, because the very people who are the ostensible beneficiaries of the move, namely the hospitality industry, are going to be big losers if this all goes, as predicted, tits up.

 

[two sheds]

We are well into a period where it would be expected that the test system would start to struggle with demand.

Attempts to fully pin this down might be tricky because that test booking/availability system is updated a lot, and where no tests are available at one moment, there might be some available a short while later that same day.

I expect the delays to contact tracing and cases showing up in published data has probably started to grow too.

Not that there's necessarily a link but that's fucking convenient isn't it.

 

[elbows]

No I dont run far with that logic, it makes them look bad and it doesnt really convince everyone that the situation is less bad than it really is. It wont stop weekly survey-test based studies from reporting increasing prevalence, and if the number of positive cases reported is increasingly limited by testing limits then this will show up via changes to the proportion of cases to hospitalisations.

Last September when the test system was under strain Hancock resorted to blaming people for creating too much demand for testing and that went down quite badly.

It is bloody inconvenient for anyone that needs to get a test, and it is something I have to take account of in the data. I'd much rather the system was able to cope with high levels of demand, but the best way to do that would be to keep the number of infections down to something far lower than we are seeing at present.

 

[glitch hiker]

They think it's all over ...

More like, They think we think it's all over

 

[andysays]

I see you're shifting your position

It seems to me to be what they're doing. NHS staff are demoralised and exhausted. All their hard work isn't valued by the government, who feel the doctors and nurses should be chuffed with 1% when inflation's rather more than that

Lots of people have clearly told the government of the consequences of going ahead with the removal of restrictions. Of the danger of overwhelming the NHS. Of the risk of new variants. Javid has been told waiting lists could reach 13 million. What happens to the NHS in the next period of the pandemic is a deliberate choice by the government who cannot complain no one warned them of possible consequences.

A lot of NHS staff are, apparently, considering leaving. A lot have left. There are over 100,000 nursing vacancies alone. Before shortfalls in doctors and ancillary staff are considered. I can't see staff retention being improved by government decisions like relaxing restrictions.

And the upshot of this is that private companies will see desperate patients turning to them, as dentists are apparently with their backlog. I can't see this as other than a deliberate policy as the government have been clearly told of the risks they're running with a health service already long underfunded and being privatised

I've explained my view at some length while you've simply said you disagree without offering any counter argument. I don't think you have such a thing, but I'd like to be proved wrong. Don't suppose I will be tho.

I think a few years ago this idea might have seemed more in the realms of conspiracy theory, but today it appears all too believable, whether or not it is actual deliberate policy.