Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[Wilf]

But I already said they'd need to shut for a period to get the infections down. Please do read all of my posts properly.

Given that I was making a different point, I don't think there's any need for me to up my reading skills.

 

[elbows]

It could yet come out today for all I know, but I have my doubts.

It came out. I havent looked at numbers in hospital yet, but this is the daily Covid-19 admissions/diagnoses. I arranged it so that the areas said to be affected most by the new variant make up the base of the graph.

 

[Spandex]

No, I'm saying what we have now is a steaming pile of shit that could have been avoided. Keeping the schools open at all costs was, and still is, a mistake.

We've got some recent real world data on things other than education that affect the spread of the virus.

Throughout the recent floppy lockdown schools, colleges and universities stayed open, while pubs, restaurants and 'non-essential' shops closed, with people politely asked to stay home.

Here's the state of England on 5th Nov when the 'lockdown' started:

(Sorry Devon and Cornwall, I couldn't fit you on, but cases were low there)

And here's the state of the country on 3rd Dec when the lockdown ended and the new tier system was introduced:

The picture was much improved, with cases falling everywhere except north Kent, where the new strain was barely being held at bay.

So singling out schools is too simplistic a picture. There are lots of activities that drive the spread of the virus of which schools are only one.

There's been fuck up on fuck up by the government that has lead to the second wave - not having a test and trace system working when numbers were low enough for it to have an effect over the summer, the eat out to spread it about scheme, telling people to go back to work, not putting Univesities online only (which the lecturer I know would've preferred), not having a circuit breaker lockdown when it was recommended to them in September, introducing the 2nd lockdown too late and ending it too soon.

Schools are only a part of the picture and I'm fine with keeping them open a priority. But the government has not made it easy for schools - issuing an ever changing confusion of guidance, not listening to teaching unions' suggestions, not giving the financial support needed to make a success of reopening, threatening legal action when LAs or heads tried to go their own way and do the right thing. Having decided that schools must reopen the government seems to have done everything in its power not to make a success of it.

I have every expectation they'll have to close again in January with the more transmissible strain running rampant and the government determined to make Christmas happen before doing much about it.

 

[elbows]

The number of Covid-19 patients in hospital in the London region is now the highest of all regions, having now overtaken the midlands. But I never adjust these figures to show a number per 100,000 population, so I'm just talking about the raw, absolute numbers when I say that.


As always, data is from Statistics » COVID-19 Hospital Activity

 

[Mation]

This is all a massive shit show. The arguments about which things should have been done when to prevent the spread or people dying or preserve mental health or mitigate against deprivation or give children something of a normal education or ensure that non-covid patients get the treatment they desperately need to maintain some reasonable quality of life all rely on us thinking that we must be able to, and are entitled to maintaining some sort of normality. That surely there must b some way to keep doing the thing/s that are closest to our priorities. (I'm excluding the 'frivolous' stuff here; not talking about any of the cavalier selfishness.)

But it just isn't possible. All we can do is balance how shit it is across different interests, either evenly or skewed to some degree. Everyone is affected. We can't have any one group protected without massively fucking another. At least, not now that the initial (potential) opportunity to crush the virus was squandered.

There aren't any good options. So how do we get from where we are now to good options? If it's not the fastest way, then it has to be via measures that will hurt more people (of whatever configuration) for longer.

Glad it's not me who has to decide, but I think faster is better. Appalling, but better. Any group gatherings have to stop - work, school, anything, dire as that is. Otherwise this just continues, given where we are now.

 

[nogojones]

Primary Schools should have, and should continue to, open to all who want to use them.

Ditto Years 7 and 8.

Years 9 to 13 should primarily be online,vwirh a very limited and strictly controlled program of face to face intervention.

University should be remote or postponed a year.

All non-essential (or not providing a social benefit) work should be stopped with a UBI brought in.

All debt should be frozen (or cancelled). No rent due. No mortgage payments due. Eviction to be prohibited.

Johnson et al. offered a choice between The New Hague (in Grytviken) or a glass of whiskey - cheap blended piss only) and a bullet

Are primary school teachers more imune to covid? Why do you want to force them to go to work during a plague when their charges have no conception of social distancing and will cough and splutter all over them?

 

[chilango]

Are primary school teachers more imune to covid? Why do you want to force them to go to work during a plague when their charges have no conception of social distancing and will cough and splutter all over them?

I don't.

But Primary age kids are probably highest priority for f2f schooling.

At the same time opening any schools needs to done with the Covid rates being squashed through shutting other stuff down hard.

 

[nogojones]

I don't.

But Primary age kids are probably highest priority for f2f schooling.

At the same time opening any schools needs to done with the Covid rates being squashed through shutting other stuff down hard.

Sorry, I must have misunderstood this

Primary Schools should have, and should continue to, open to all who want to use them.

 

[chilango]

Sorry, I must have misunderstood this

It's part of a longer list.

 

[nogojones]

Welsh Labour managing to be even less capable than Boris Johnson

Wales now has the second worst coronavirus infection rate in the world

In the last week, Wales has had more cases relative to its population than any other country except one — the original version of this story said Wales had the very worst rate and we have corrected that

www.walesonline.co.uk

 

[William of Walworth]

Here in Swansea, one of the worst-affected Welsh areas, there's been virtually no talk at my workplace of shutting down.

I'm Civil Service, and we're rated as 'essential workers' -- like my colleagues, I have a letter to carry saying this for the benefit of the Police or of other authorities.

Plenty of my colleagues work from home, but in my section and similar ones, the paperwork-based nature of our work would make the logistics of supplying/collecting work very difficult.
And supplying data-secure hardware and software, isolated from other PCs/laptops etc. (infected? ) would also be difficult

But we were sent home for not far off five months in the summer (in my case, Wednesday 18th March to Monday 3rd August inclusive).

What I don't get now, with such outrageous increases in cases in Wales and in the SE,, why there's next-to-zero talk or rumour about staying at home from work.

For all but ultra-essential workers, planning for this would be a thing though, wouldn't you think??

People have all been talking about schools on this thread lately -- but travelling daily to/from work is unsafe enough, surely, for tightening the rules to include shutting work places except where unavoidable.

I'm honestly not right now thinking only about my selfish interests, because there's a genuine discussion about workplaces to be had here.

TLDR : Do any Urbans predict that stricter staying at home from work measures will happen?
Including for those who can't work from home?
I appreciate that this would be far from welcome for many ....

 

[weltweit]

William of Walworth our factory stayed open all the way though, socially distanced etc etc but it stayed open. Me I worked from home, because I could, both because of the nature of my work and because I could be trusted to actually work from home rather than just watch TV.

 

[nogojones]

What I don't get now, with such outrageous increases in cases in Wales and in the SE,, why there's next-to-zero talk or rumour about staying at home from work.

Because they care more about the productivity of labour than the lives of labour. I think there's also a good bit of incompetence and cowardice thrown into the mix as well, but it's mostly because they don't really give much of a shit

 

[Numbers]

I want fish & chips now

This is an underrated post. A 9am call for fish & chips

 

[William of Walworth]

Because they care more about the productivity of labour that the lives of labour. I think there's also a good bit of incompetence and cowardice thrown into the mix as well, but it's mostly because they don't really give much of a shit

I know this and I agree with you , but with infection rates in Wales, especially South, increasing so fast and so badly, I was genuinely wondering whether Drakeford would be forced into making stricter changes about workplaces.

It's possible?? that UK-wide Civil Service agencies/departments can only do what London (etc.) does, but I don't actually know, and surely the same conditions apply to London anyway.

TBF, I feel pretty safe in my own workplace -- lots of distancing, screens between desks, one-way systems, universal mask-wearing (which is strictly enforced), ultra-care with cleaning and hygiene, a few other things.
ETA : I forgot to include that the safety regime was negotiated in great detail back in July with our PCS branch, who managed to get a number of details changed for the better -- NHS Wales, HSE, and the local authority have also done a few inspections and approved.

But!!
With the way infections rates are going now (dark purple in Swansea ) a strong case for sending people home still exists, nevertheless?

 

[two sheds]

This is an underrated post. A 9am call for fish & chips

withdrawal symptoms

 

[weltweit]

Do you know when they did their 76 odd day lockdown in Wuhan, did they still have non essential workers going to work?

 

[nogojones]

I know this and I agree with you , but with infection rates in Wales, especially South, increasing so fast and so badly, I was genuinely wondering whether Drakeford would be forced into making stricter changes about workplaces.

It's possible?? that UK-wide Civil Service agencies/departments can only do what London (etc.) does, but I don't actually know, and surely the same conditions apply to London anyway.

TBF, I feel pretty safe in my own workplace -- lots of distancing, screens between desks, one-way systems, universal mask-wearing (which is strictly enforced), ultra-care with cleaning and hygiene, a few other things.

But with the way infections rates are going now (dark purple in Swansea ) a strong case for sending people home still exists, nevertheless?

If I had any say in the matter, you'd be working from home ... and Mark Drayfords head would be on a spike

 

[Red Cat]

Arguing for the importance of schools for the well being of children isn't the same as saying they should stay open now. I don't think anyone is saying that are they?

I must say though, i'm dreading it, working from home with the children here and not being able to help my youngest with her learning because I am a keyworker looking after other people's children is very, very hard, as is making calls from my car for confidentiality, or because my daughter is really upset and making loads of noise because she needs me, because i have yet another meeting/zoom call to make, sometimes to a young person, instead of being with her. Her mental health really suffered and she's still extremely anxious and tearful about it all.

 

[Thora]

If they shut the schools I'm going to take time off.

 

[SpookyFrank]

If they shut the schools I'm going to take time off.

So am I. Because I work in a school.

 

[nogojones]

So am I. Because I work in a school.

I suspect the head will have another idea for the use of your time

 

[ash]

Arguing for the importance of schools for the well being of children isn't the same as saying they should stay open now. I don't think anyone is saying that are they?

I must say though, i'm dreading it, working from home with the children here and not being able to help my youngest with her learning because I am a keyworker looking after other people's children is very, very hard, as is making calls from my car for confidentiality, or because my daughter is really upset and making loads of noise because she needs me, because i have yet another meeting/zoom call to make, sometimes to a young person, instead of being with her. Her mental health really suffered and she's still extremely anxious and tearful about it all.

That sounds incredibly stressful is there anyway you can legitimately take time off or ask for furlough. I’m sure the answer is no but what your describing sounds almost improbable to sustain.

 

[DaveCinzano]

I suspect the head will have another idea for the use of your time

 

[Red Cat]

That sounds incredibly stressful is there anyway you can legitimately take time off or ask for furlough. I’m sure the answer is no but what your describing sounds almost improbable to sustain.

I think i'll have to ask for a reduction in hours. We had a family bereavement back in March, same week as schools closed, and it was so hard, and I just carried on working. I can't do it again.

 

[Thora]

I think i'll have to ask for a reduction in hours. We had a family bereavement back in March, same week as schools closed, and it was so hard, and I just carried on working. I can't do it again.

Mr Thora has also prepped his boss that if the schools shut we can't just carry on like we did in March. I think employers of parents are going to have to accept that this time.

 

[miss direct]

If schools shut i may not have a job as I'm meant to start in January but don't have a contract yet..

 

[Red Cat]

Mr Thora has also prepped his boss that if the schools shut we can't just carry on like we did in March. I think employers of parents are going to have to accept that this time.

i'm going to have to be very boundaried and assertive I think, as the growing waiting list and doubling of referrals means there's a huge amount of pressure in work atm.

 

[Flavour]

France will allow EU citizens to enter from Britain with negative Covid-19 test starting midnight

French and other EU citizens will once again be allowed to enter France from Britain beginning at midnight if they have a negative Covid-19 test that is less than 72 hours old, the French prime minister's…

www.france24.com

Slight reopening begins

 

[Cid]

Do you know when they did their 76 odd day lockdown in Wuhan, did they still have non essential workers going to work?

I think not... I guess it varied, but it was extremely strict.