Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[Mation]

Wakes will apparently continue to be allowed with 6 people in attendance. But I'm sure I read that today, in Tier 3, wakes aren't allowed (though funerals are).

(Thankfully this doesn't affect me at the moment. But ffs.)

 

[LeytonCatLady]

I'm furious about this. I'd actually prepared myself for not being able to have Christmas with my family - who I haven't seen for a year - when they said "It's OK, you can see your loved ones from 23rd - 27th". So I booked myself a train ticket to Birmingham and bought presents for everyone, and what do the bastards do? This feels like betrayal. It's not even the last minute cancellation, it's allowing us to make plans only to scupper them at the 11th hour. They've got to stop pissing us about, make a decision and fucking STICK TO IT!

 

[The39thStep]

Tl;dr? If you're in a tier 4 area there is nothing you can do

Loads of opportunities to try something different :

• outdoor gym, pools, sports courts and facilities
• golf courses
• archery/driving/shooting ranges (outdoors)
• animal rescue centres, boarding facilities, and animal groomers (may continue to be used for animal welfare, rather than aesthetic purposes)
• agricultural supplies shops
• for training and rehearsal without an audience (in theatres and concert halls)
• for the purposes of professional film and TV filming
• blood donation sessions and food banks

 

[elbows]

The worst thing is seeing those graphs where the cases went so low in June/July... why oh why didn't we go for eradication in that time, yes it would have been painful for a short time but better for a whole lot more time afterwards. What were they thinking would happen after summer.

There are many reasons why UK Establishment PLC never took seriously a proper suppression strategy. Very much including attitudes towards travel bans, border controls and business closures that affect rich people. Marinaded in a sauce of dogma and a weakness for dinner parties and fancy restaurants.

 

[platinumsage]

If the new variant has an R of 0.4 higher than the previous one, then it's likely not containable with the new lockdown is it?

In the first lockdown R never went below +0.7, with the new variant that would be +1.1, meaning infections will continue to rise unless more severe measures are taken.

 

[elbows]

Sturgeon was saying, they have had few recent outbreaks in care homes, but those that have occurred have spread faster & they didn't know why, but based on this new information they will now look into whether it's down to this new strain.

She mentioned hospital infections too. Which reminds me that there are some trials in England where they are studying genome sequences of infections in hospital staff and patients in an attempt to improve understanding of transmission in those settings. I wonder if the new strain has shown up much in those studies.

 

[elbows]

If the new variant has an R of 0.4 higher than the previous one, then it's likely not containable with the new lockdown is it?

In the first lockdown R never went below +0.7, with the new variant that would +1.1, meaning infections will continue to rise unless more severe measures are taken.

Plus winter isnt exactly expected to have a nice effect on R. Even without new strain implications we dont really know how well the original measures would have fared in a winter.

Forms of lockdown will still exist that could deal with a virus with much increased R potential, but whether we'll ever go that far is another question.

 

[Infidel Castro]

The lad was due back to Cardiff from London Town tomorrow with his girlfriend. Sucker punch. Correct decision, granted (if a bit late). Going to miss them hugely after the year we've had. I really had come to terms with them being here for Christmas (that wasn't easy given the general anxiety around covid) and was looking forward to an ounce or two of normality. Torpedoed. Hope everyone is alright.

 

[TopCat]

I'm furious about this. I'd actually prepared myself for not being able to have Christmas with my family - who I haven't seen for a year - when they said "It's OK, you can see your loved ones from 23rd - 27th". So I booked myself a train ticket to Birmingham and bought presents for everyone, and what do the bastards do? This feels like betrayal. It's not even the last minute cancellation, it's allowing us to make plans only to scupper them at the 11th hour. They've got to stop pissing us about, make a decision and fucking STICK TO IT!

You are speaking for the nation.

 

[LDC]

They've got to stop pissing us about, make a decision and fucking STICK TO IT!

And if new information comes in about a virus variant that's much more infectious and the projections show increased and rapid spread in certain areas of the country?

 

[Infidel Castro]

And if new information comes in about a virus variant that's much more infectious and the projections show increased and rapid spread in certain areas of the country?

If I get the gist of LeytonCatLady's post, I think they would like the correct decision to be made in the first place.

 

[AverageJoe]

Plus winter isnt exactly expected to have a nice effect on R. Even without new strain implications we dont really know how well the original measures would have fared in a winter.

Forms of lockdown will still exist that could deal with a virus with much increased R potential, but whether we'll ever go that far is another question.

I don't know these things but can a virus evolve so that it can get into the water supply and survive?

 

[LeytonCatLady]

And if new information comes in about a virus variant that's much more infectious and the projections show increased and rapid spread in certain areas of the country?

I'm talking about all the other times they've changed the goalposts and back again, not just this. Maybe if they'd been more consistent since March, this would be unfortunate but necessary. But it just feels like yet more incompetence.

 

[Mation]

Reports of trains out of London sold out. Brilliant. So the new strain gets distributed all around the country

I wonder, probably naively, whether they're sold out because there are even fewer services on?

 

[bimble]

There was absolutely no good reason for them to be promising everyone a Christmas back in October. They could have said sorry we don’t know.

 

[elbows]

There was absolutely no good reason for them to be promising everyone a Christmas back in October. They could have said sorry we don’t know.

Yes the entire autumn and winter in this pandemic could have been framed very differently every step of the way. Indeed the summer relaxation should have been framed as a temporary thing that would end as the seasons turned. Instead we got a shit pandemic soap opera.

 

[Pickman's model]

And if new information comes in about a virus variant that's much more infectious and the projections show increased and rapid spread in certain areas of the country?

Then the government should apologise for going against the science when they promised an Xmas relaxation. They should apologise for their serial ineptitude.

 

[LeytonCatLady]

There was absolutely no good reason for them to be promising everyone a Christmas back in October. They could have said sorry we don’t know.

This. I'd rather they just admitted they couldn't say at that stage instead of giving us some bullshit to keep us quiet. Are we children that need to be humoured?

 

[Supine]

I don't know these things but can a virus evolve so that it can get into the water supply and survive?

Billions of virus live in water. Luckily almost all are completely safe.

 

[Steel Icarus]

I wonder, probably naively, whether they're sold out because there are even fewer services on?

Dunno, but look:

 

[Chilli.s]

And this is why the silly unlocked lockdowns, with work school shops and travel open just dont work properly. Removing the possibility of infection and the natural lifespan of the virus would work, like it has in other countries.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yes the entire autumn and winter in this pandemic could have been framed very differently every step of the way. Indeed the summer relaxation should have been framed as a temporary thing that would end as the seasons turned. Instead we got a shit pandemic soap opera.

I'd like to see Boris Johnson written out of this particular soap

 

[elbows]

Scottish CMO at the press conference mentioned info of interest to me, that about 5-10% of all viral isolates in the UK are subject to genomic sequencing.

 

[bimble]

This. I'd rather they just admitted they couldn't say at that stage instead of giving us some bullshit to keep us quiet. Are we children that need to be humoured?

Yes. He appears to feel that the people he’s talking to (in these press conferences, in his journalism) are idiots.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Dunno, but look:

Gosh, who could have seen that coming.

 

[elbows]

Yes. He appears to feel that the people he’s talking to (in these press conferences, in his journalism) are idiots.

He has modelled data to indicate such. Unfortunately he didnt realise that this data, this proof of the ineptitude of his audience, stemmed from his practice sessions in front of a mirror.

 

[bimble]

Thing is he drove a jcb through a polystyrene wall for brexit and people apparently liked it. And he got to be prime minister. So maybe his assessment of his audience isn’t that surprising.

 

[Cloo]

There was absolutely no good reason for them to be promising everyone a Christmas back in October. They could have said sorry we don’t know.

They should have said, waaaay ahead 'We don't know what the situation will be at Christmas, it will be best to assume you will do a distanced Christmas this year' -certainly once they had the vaccine they would know this should be the only Christmas where that would be necessary so an even better time to drive home the message that it's just for the one year. But no, they had to 'save Christmas'... oh, unless things got worse.

 

[elbows]

This. I'd rather they just admitted they couldn't say at that stage instead of giving us some bullshit to keep us quiet. Are we children that need to be humoured?

Its the perpetual shitty tango in this country between politicians and the media. If people watched the press conferences in full all the way along they will have heard many immature, loaded and ridiculous questions from sections of the media during this pandemic.

There are many reasons I wouldnt want to be a politician within a system of national government and parties, but if I had taken such a path then I think it would have been very easy to become cynical after seeing what sorts of games are played at every level, very much including the press.

For example when we were first treated to quotes from the likes of Johnson about Christmas, months ago, it wasnt because he wanted to bring the subject up, its because journalists started asking stupid Christmas questions.

 

[elbows]

I note that the Scottish announcement included a delay to the start of the new school term (except for children of essential workers). And they've given themselves to delay the school restart for other kids even further if thats what circumstances still demand by mid January.