Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[editor]

I haven't see my brother since his wide died and my trip up now is obviously cancelled. I'm going to struggle this Christmas.

 

[BlanketAddict]

Could a new variant render just-released vaccines ineffective? Could it be that catastrophic in a worse case scenario?

 

[Pickman's model]

I have just heard of someone that has just had to cancel her wedding.

For the third time this year.

Perhaps there's something she shouldn't do

 

[Pingety Pong]

Have you got a link?

It's at the end of this article:

Britischer Premier Johnson über neue Corona-Variante: Mutiertes Virus 70 Prozent ansteckender

Eine in England entdeckte Covid-Variante beschleunigt die Verbreitung massiv, die Regierung verschärft den Lockdown. Die Mutation könnte laut Experten auch für den Anstieg in Deutschland verantwortlich sein.

www.spiegel.de

"The mutation appears to be very similar to the virus mutations that occurred on mink farms in Denmark and the Netherlands in the past few weeks."

 

[Puddy_Tat]

So I think my ex can get away tomorrow as Tier 4 comes into force on Monday

My reading of "00:01 GMT on Sunday " means just after midnight on Saturday night / Sunday morning, or to put it another way, tonight...

There was some confusion with earlier stages with government saying "midnight on X day" so nobody was quite sure which night they meant

 

[editor]

Is there a clear list of the rules anywhere? I'm finding the various newspaper's rules unhelpful. Are non essential shops closed?

It says

Boris Johnson has cancelled Christmas for millions of people across London and south-east England after scientists said that a new coronavirus variant is spreading more rapidly.

The Prime Minister announced that from Sunday areas in the South East currently in Tier 3 will be moved into a new Tier 4 - effectively returning to the lockdown rules of November.

Non-essential shops, gyms, cinemas, hairdressers and bowling alleys will be forced to close for two weeks - while people will be restricted to meeting one other person from another household in an outdoor public space.

The rest of England will also see the Christmas "bubble" policy - allowing up to three household to meet up over the holiday period - severely curtailed, applying on Christmas Day only.

Boris Johnson speaks of 'heavy heart' as Christmas is sacrificed to protect the vulnerable

Boris Johnson spoke of his “heavy heart" as he condemned 16 million people to Christmas without seeing their relatives.

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[elbows]

Could a new variant render just-released vaccines ineffective? Could it be that catastrophic in a worse case scenario?

Yes, that sort of thing is one of the reasons they want to monitor changes to the virus over time. Takes a while to find out. Its by no means inevitable, and there are different degrees of this stuff, eg might make vaccine and existing immunity acquired through infection less effective, but not 0% effective.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I wouldnt put it quite like that. Data started to suck and cause alarm even before national measures ended. Data that followed in December caused a ramping up of alarm, and by Monday they were already starting to set the scene for what happened today.

It will probably be some time before I feel we have a good understanding of the new strain, so I'll probably have to keep an open mind about various details for quite some time. That wont stop me commenting on how this aspect has been used in regards the politics and public health messages and news management, because those aspects can be done quite cynically without casting any judgement on whether the underlying science regarding the new strain is valid or not.

Or to put it another way, its data such as number of positive cases, hospitalisations that really causes alarm and forces them to act. Part of the detail of this data was alarming trajectories seen in some areas, including before national measures ended. The stuff about a new strain offers an explanation for some or all of that data. But if we were not a nation that does genomic analysis much, and had not spotted this new strain at all at this stage, they would have had to speculate about other reasons and would still have been forced into tougher measures and Christmas u-turns.

BIB - Yes, the data was showing spread growing fast in some areas, but they have only just come to the conclusion it's probably because of this new strain, which has caused the panic.

Sturgeon was saying, they have had few recent outbreaks in care homes, but those that have occurred have spread faster & they didn't know why, but based on this new information they will now look into whether it's down to this new strain.

 

[magneze]

Oh fuck. I'd always thought it the other way around.

Hang on - the BBC changed its text hence my confusion!

View attachment 244274

Bizarrely, I read that people should "think carefully" about international travel. So it may be OK through that loophole. Worth checking.

 

[editor]

My reading of "00:01 GMT on Sunday " means just after midnight on Saturday night / Sunday morning, or to put it another way, tonight...

There was some confusion with earlier stages with government saying "midnight on X day" so nobody was quite sure which night they meant

That's where my confusion came from. I obviously know what 0.01 is

 

[bimble]

Is there a clear list of the rules anywhere? I'm finding the various newspaper's rules unhelpful. Are non essential shops closed?

This seems to work , enter your postcode .

Covid rules: What are the restrictions in your area?

Use our search tool to find out about coronavirus rules and restrictions where you live.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[LDC]

Is there a clear list of the rules anywhere? I'm finding the various newspaper's rules unhelpful. Are non essential shops closed?

In Tier 4 in England, yes from midnight tonight. It's bascially much nearer the March lockdown with a stay at home instruction.

 

[editor]

Bizarrely, I read that people should "think carefully" about international travel. So it may be OK through that loophole. Worth checking.

Although the Guardian says absolutely no:

Tier 4 residents must not stay overnight away from home, and cannot travel abroad.

Covid tier 4: what are the new restrictions for London and south-east England?

Areas will move to tier 4, where a new ‘stay at home’ message will be introduced

www.theguardian.com

and the BBC:

"You are not allowed to travel abroad, unless for exceptional reasons."

So it's a no but yes.

 

[magneze]

Although the Guardian says absolutely no:

Covid tier 4: what are the new restrictions for London and south-east England?

Areas will move to tier 4, where a new ‘stay at home’ message will be introduced

www.theguardian.com

In the same article: "People in all tiers are advised to stay local, and “think carefully” about whether they need to travel abroad."

 

[Steel Icarus]

Johnson said "exceptional reasons, such as work"

 

[SpookyFrank]

Johnson said "exceptional reasons, such as work"

To be fair, for him doing a day's work is an exceptional situation.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Although the Guardian says absolutely no:

Covid tier 4: what are the new restrictions for London and south-east England?

Areas will move to tier 4, where a new ‘stay at home’ message will be introduced

www.theguardian.com

and the BBC:

"You are not allowed to travel abroad, unless for exceptional reasons."

So it's a no but yes.

Clear unambiguous leadership

 

[cupid_stunt]

Still in tier 2, but a half hour walk with the dog I can enter 2 counties, surrey and berkshire, both in tier 3.

Surrey and Berkshire are both tier 4 from midnight tonight.

 

[editor]

Making sense for once:

 

[bimble]

This
Is really stark. What is my tier 4 area, is it my county? The supermarket is across the border in another tier 4 so that’s fine or is it ‘travel’.

 

[redsquirrel]

Yeah. There's millions who could've been given time to manage, plan and prepare for an alternative this year but instead have had an impossible carrot dangled in their faces only for it to be cruelly snatched away at the last minute for no other reason than the Prime Minister is a fucking coward.

I think this is going to go down really badly. If they'd prepared for something like this people would be annoyed but understand but having pushed the Christmas is going ahead line people really going to be upset.

 

[Pickman's model]

Making sense for once:

I don't think sir keir starmer is the man to offer clear decisive leadership

 

[LDC]

I think this is going to go down really badly. If they'd prepared for something like this people would be annoyed but understand but having pushed the Christmas is going ahead line people really going to be upset.

What do you do though if the briefing they got yesterday (apparently) gave them new news about the variant and projections? I do understand people being upset, but it's just fucking Xmas ffs and this is a global pandemic that's killed tens of thousands in this country alone, and it's far from over.

 

[maomao]

This seems to work , enter your postcode .

Covid rules: What are the restrictions in your area?

Use our search tool to find out about coronavirus rules and restrictions where you live.

www.bbc.co.uk

It'll be the local authority area that comes up when you enter your postcode. Though if the nearest supermarket is in another area and also tier 4 then it makes sense to use that.

 

[editor]

I don't think sir keir starmer is the man to offer clear decisive leadership

He's not but, like I said, I agreed with his one comment.

 

[Pickman's model]

I think this is going to go down really badly. If they'd prepared for something like this people would be annoyed but understand but having pushed the Christmas is going ahead line people really going to be upset.

And many, many people won't be prepared, they'll have a load of shopping to do, I know I do now

 

[Threshers_Flail]

Making sense for once:

nah

 

[chilango]

I don't think sir keir starmer is the man to offer clear decisive leadership

Didn't he whip Labour to abstain on the vote?

 

[nagapie]

Trying to get tests for someone who works in my home and their child, the testing system has broken again, offered tests 6 miles away when we have local walk ins.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

What is my tier 4 area, is it my county? The supermarket is across the border in another tier 4 so that’s fine is it?

or are you allowed to travel within the whole tier 4 region?

i'm not entirely sure.



and johnson accusing starmer of "wanting to cancel xmas" 3 days ago hasn't really aged well...