Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[Badgers]

The ridiculous easing of the rules over xmas is going to totally fuck us, isn't it?

It is a bombshell

NHS, virologists and other experts are desperate for lockdown, don't want people traveling and mixing over Winterval.

But the economy...

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

It is a bombshell

NHS, virologists and other experts are desperate for lockdown, don't want people traveling and mixing over Winterval.

But the economy...

It's not even the economy, it's so Boris isn't the man who cancelled xmas

 

[agricola]

Its a tragedy how badly the Welsh administration messed things up in recent months.

For a firebreak-based policy to stand any chance of working the first firebreak needs to be done nice and early, and then you need more than feeble mesures to come in when it ends, and then you need to be ready to do further short firebreakers at the correct time. Even then I dont know how well it would have worked, maybe if timed correctly even short firebreakers could work for managing an autumn situation and beginning winter without terribly high levels of community infection. Even then once winter has been around a while it is probably necessary to switch to a different policy, because otherwise so many firebreaks would probably be needed that the absurdity of switching things on and off every couple of weeks would probably be too great, and a single longer lockdown more appropriate.

The big error was not co-ordinating with England - for understandable reasons, but without an effective border to stop it opening up like they did just guaranteed people would come and do the things they were banned from doing in the occupied territories. Other than that there have been a load of little errors that they really didn't have to make, though most governments have made the same errors (all the effort to keep pubs open for example - they (and HMG) should have just bit the bullet, told them to close for six months but compensated them properly).

 

[elbows]

Not the picture that was painted this morning in my Welsh town which has a bigger than average cohort of over 65s. Her other words? "We are desperate to get people in. They aren't coming in."

They might be afraid of catching it in a health setting. Its not an unreasonable fear, but media etc dont know how to talk about it and related subjects such as the level of hospital infections in this pandemic, because they fear making the problem worse. And journalists will have lots of professional contacts who probably reinforce such fears about patients not coming, doing more harm than good etc.

Its a tricky one. I err on the side of going on about hospital infections mostly because there is a big gap in reporting there. I am aware that if I had a larger platform, the equation might start to look different and I might have to moderate myself.

A lot of subjects stray into this difficult territory at times. For example one of SAGEs concerns earlier in the year, when planning winter influenza vaccine strategy, was some past evidence that influenza vaccines may leave the person receiving the vaccine more susceptible to catchig other seasonal coronaviruses for a period of some days after vaccination. This made them wonder whether the same thing could be true for this pandemic coronavirus. But Im not sure what the historical evidence was like, and they decided to go for it anyway because of the risks stemming from a large flu outbreak at the same time hospitals were busy from Covid-19, etc.

 

[elbows]

It is a bombshell

NHS, virologists and other experts are desperate for lockdown, don't want people traveling and mixing over Winterval.

But the economy...

I fear that bombshell also captured too much attention too soon, and the first Covidmas bombshell was crowded non-essential retail AKA Christmas shopping.

 

[ddraig]

Those recent months stretch back quite a way and take in the education fiasco as well as general Covid management.

I am convinced, because I know how Welsh Labour work, as well as Welsh nationalism generally, that the firebreak was purely a political move, a desire to be seen to be doing something that England wasn't.

I don't think they have a clue. As I repeatedly refer back, take some time to read the back to school guidance for September. The guidance that totally trashed facemasks, going so far as to tell us (staff) that if we turned up to school in a mask we were to remove them before entering through the school gates.

They are a travesty of an authority.

Why do you think this?

 

[elbows]

Press conference soon.

 

[Orang Utan]

I haven't gone to get my flu jab, mostly because I assumed it would be oversubscribed...

My GP surgery did ours in a big church hall, all social distanced (well, except for the actual jab of course)

 

[planetgeli]

Why do you think this?

Which bit?

 

[cupid_stunt]

My GP surgery did ours in a big church hall, all social distanced (well, except for the actual jab of course)

That's what they did around here too.

 

[elbows]

Hancock had to start by demolishing the picture he painted just days ago of cases rising predominantly in school-aged children.

 

[Badgers]

It's not even the economy, it's so Boris isn't the man who cancelled xmas

Just speaking to someone at work. They booked Christmas in Dubai to see their family. Are not getting tested in case 'it is positive so we can't go'

I did point out that (unlike the feckless UK) there is a good chance (certainty?) they will get tested on arrival in Dubai. The response was that that is fine because it is sunny there and we can isolate at their big house in the garden annex and eat meals in the garden.

Asked about all the people/staff at the airport and worse on the plane? They didn't care.

 

[ddraig]

Which bit?

that WG did it to "be different" and it was "political" and the bit about knowing how WG works?

 

[Sue]

Yes, but group exercise classes (including fitness and dance) should not go ahead.

My gym (which only does classes) has just mailed, saying they're closing from tomorrow night. Feel really sorry for them tbh as it's a very small, independent chain and imagine they must be really struggling.

 

[Espresso]

My local health centre is usually shut on a Saturday, but they were open this past Saturday, just to do the flu jabs.

First time I've had a flu jab, because it's the first time they've been offered for the over 50s. Got my letter, rang up and was given a time to attend.

It was really well organised; ten staff doing the jabs, one in each of the consulting rooms and two staff checking you in and another one marshalling the queue and telling you which room to go to. She had a placard that read "Please take your jacket off while you are in the queue". Sensible stuff.
There was a one way system in place so I went in the front door, identified myself, queued up, took my coat off, got jabbed and was out the back door and putting my coat back on in less time than it's taken me to type this. I would say there were something like twenty other people in there while I was. Impressive system.

 

[elbows]

Tory ministers talking about new variants takes me back to the days of child burger eating propaganda in response to new variant CJD.

New variant clown-pants torn disease.

 

[Badgers]

North
People are taking the piss and causing figures to rise.

South
New variant detected.

 

[andysays]

Tory ministers talking about new variants takes me back to the days of child burger eating propaganda in response to new variant CJD.

New variant clown-pants torn disease.

I was trying to remember what the phrase "new variant" reminded me of!

Getting all nostalgic for those far off hazy days of Mad Cow Disease

 

[planetgeli]

that WG did it to "be different" and it was "political" and the bit about knowing how WG works?

Johnson was in the middle of his 'nothing to be seen here' phase. Castigating Starmer for being a lockdown scarer. Despite the very concept of a possible 'firebreak' being 'originally' a Johnson idea he'd nicked from Singapore. So as the Johnson government activated a policy of inertia, and with things getting obviously worse all round, the Welsh government took it upon themselves to nick 'his' idea and 'do something.' Despite knowing that this was the absolute minimum of what needed to be done and that the advice had been to do it weeks earlier. But it was an open window to do something, when the UK government was doing nothing. 1-0 to the Senedd.

But this limited action didn't take place in a vacuum. It took place in the midst of the Welsh government completely ballsing up a education covid policy that they were forced to retract just two weeks after publication. The whole Welsh back-to-school guidance that told us we were not allowed to wear face masks, and spent an awful long time in a 51 page directive to do so. The Welsh government that issued useless face shields but not masks. The Welsh government that spent 3 pages of that guidance telling teachers what marks to put in the register against fearful Covid-absentee pupils.

The same Welsh government that told its Directors of Education last Wednesday that schools must stay open at all costs and threatened to discipline a Headmistress who closed hers - 24 hours before a massive about turn where they closed the schools.

I work in a job more affected by Welsh government decisions on this than most. That's how I know. It's (partly) my job to read this stuff and act on it.

 

[ddraig]

Johnson was in the middle of his 'nothing to be seen here' phase. Castigating Starmer for being a lockdown scarer. Despite the very concept of a possible 'firebreak' being 'originally' a Johnson idea he'd nicked from Singapore. So as the Johnson government activated a policy of inertia, and with things getting obviously worse all round, the Welsh government took it upon themselves to nick 'his' idea and 'do something.' Despite knowing that this was the absolute minimum of what needed to be done and that the advice had been to do it weeks earlier. But it was an open window to do something, when the UK government was doing nothing. 1-0 to the Senedd.

But this limited action didn't take place in a vacuum. It took place in the midst of the Welsh government completely ballsing up a education covid policy that they were forced to retract just two weeks after publication. The whole Welsh back-to-school guidance that told us we were not allowed to wear face masks, and spent an awful long time in a 51 page directive to do so. The Welsh government that issued useless face shields but not masks. The Welsh government that spent 3 pages of that guidance telling teachers what marks to put in the register against fearful Covid-absentee pupils.

The same Welsh government that told its Directors of Education last Wednesday that schools must stay open at all costs and threatened to discipline a Headmistress who closed hers - 24 hours before a massive about turn where they closed the schools.

I work in a job more affected by Welsh government decisions on this than most. That's how I know. It's (partly) my job to read this stuff and act on it.

So you don't think they just did it off their own backs to do "something"?
Just because Wales has taken different decisions it seems to have been made out to be "doing it deliberately", "trying to show Boris/tories/englund up", and even "copying what englund do a few weeks later"
Seen all this kinda rubbish over and over on online comments along with "just do the same as the rest of the country"

e2a - apart from your area of work and expertise the rest is just your opinion/extrapolation?

 

[planetgeli]

So you don't think they just did it off their own backs to do "something"?
Just because Wales has taken different decisions it seems to have been made out to be "doing it deliberately", "trying to show Boris/tories/englund up", and even "copying what englund do a few weeks later"
Seen all this kinda rubbish over and over on online comments along with "just do the same as the rest of the country"

e2a - apart from your area of work and expertise the rest is just your opinion/extrapolation?

I literally have no idea what you are talking about and can't make sense of your post.

 

[Supine]

What a shit show of a press conference now. The Gov messaging is really poor at the moment.

I can see a Jan/Feb lockdown after the Xmas period relaxation had its affect on the numbers.

People really need to understand that family gatherings are very dangerous this year.

 

[bimble]

The ridiculous easing of the rules over xmas is going to totally fuck us, isn't it?

This is a really crap attempt at a silver lining but I think the number of people who would have complied with the rules / any rules over Christmas is probably quite low. And many of those people (who would have complied) will be making sensible decisions anyway.
So to some extent all that’s happening is the stupid government just trying to not make itself look even more useless, they had a choice between mass disobedience of totally unenforceable rules or Johnson benevolently gifting everyone Christmas.

 

[brogdale]

I wish I felt as reassured by that statement as Whitty, no doubt, hoped it would be when he said it.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

What a shit show of a press conference now. The Gov messaging is really poor at the moment.

If they actually gave a shit they would realise that every time they do this stuff and demonstrate that they have no consistent policy, no attention to the science until they're pushed into it, and are just winging it until a vaccine comes and saves their arses, compliance with anything goes down. But then if they gave a shit they wouldn't do all that in the first place. Or use it as an opportunity to funnel money to their cronies of course.

 

[andysays]

This is a really crap attempt at a silver lining but I think the number of people who would have complied with the rules / any rules over Christmas is probably quite low. So to some extent all that’s happening is the stupid government just trying to not make itself look even more useless, they had a choice between mass disobedience of totally unenforceable rules or Johnson benevolently gifting everyone Christmas.

if this is true, you also need to ask yourself why you think the number of people who would have complied with the rules / any rules over Christmas is probably quite low.

And I suggest that the utter shitness right from day one of the government response in explaining and prioritizing keeping people safe over short term economic reasons is a large part of why many people are getting sick of the whole thing and inclined to say, "fuck it, we've had a shit year, let's at least enjoy Xmas"

 

[elbows]

What a shit show of a press conference now. The Gov messaging is really poor at the moment.

Its not even fun when a journalist tries to get the likes of Whitty to say something negative about the governments response, tiers etc.

Because he invariably responds with a bunch of stuff that I see the merits of, but then goes too far in defending things by feeling the need to go on about the risk of acting too soon. He can fuck off when he frames it like that, the risk of going too early with measures in this pandemic is the one fucking risk this fucking government have been in no danger of contributing to in this fucking pandemic.

He was very coy about saying anything about the new variant that would allow nerds to instantly know which strain and mutations they are referring to with all this new variant talk.

 

[bimble]

andysays 100%. Wasn’t inevitable at all. The driving eye test debacle is where I think they lost any semblance of trust and authority in the eyes of pretty much everybody .

 

[ddraig]

I literally have no idea what you are talking about and can't make sense of your post.

Oh ffs
You are making the point that WG made decisions just to be different to englund, can you not see that they are just making their own decisions? (however muddled)

 

[brogdale]

View attachment 243527
I wish I felt as reassured by that statement as Whitty, no doubt, hoped it would be when he said it.

Hold my beer, says Whitty...