Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[chilango]

It's the lack of logic and reasoning in people's thinking that has done my head in tbh. Like a complete inability to see how some things connect. And to not understand risk, or how their actions might impact on other people. That and then add in a mix of conspiracy ideas (which are frighteningly common, even if they're not full blown 5G/it's all a fake) and I fucking despair sometimes.

(Yeah, I get the reasons why and it's not people's fault etc. etc. But fucking hell it's hard work and really quite depressing.)

Yeah. It's a fucked up situation. It's not a surprise that we're all struggling to make sense of it all.

 

[elbows]

A handy map.

 

[elbows]

Bit shocked to find myself agreeing at least partially with a Tory backbencher this morning. I don't think this will become the new normal though.

Indeed, normal service has been resumed.

8m ago 16:48

The Covid Recovery Group, which represents anti-lockdown or lockdown-sceptic Tories, has released some more quotes from Conservative MPs unhappy about the new restrictions.

This is from Harriet Baldwin, a former minister and MP for West Worcestershire

I voted for the current lockdown on the basis that it would give us a 28 day period to develop a new and enduring strategy for living with the virus that doesn’t require us to keep having to live under cycles of damaging lockdowns and severe restrictions, and to reform NHS test and trace so that only the infectious individuals and their close contacts have to isolate.
Over 23m of us were living under tier 1 restrictions before the lockdown - that figure will be under 1m in December. There is no logic whatsoever in having a month of lockdown only for people to have to live under an even more severe set of restrictions afterwards.
That’s why we must see the evidence, the data and the cost benefit analysis - published in full and on time - so that we can assess whether or not the current strategy is working, and make sure we know if we are being asked to vote for something with an end date and which will explicitly save more lives than it costs.

From Tom Tugendhat, MP for Tonbridge and Malling in Kent

We went into lockdown at tier 1 and came out at tier 3. This isn’t working for us.

From Greg Smith, MP for Buckingham

I reluctantly supported the second lockdown on the basis of NHS capacity. Today, my local NHS, who have performed exceptionally during this pandemic, are not overwhelmed - yet Buckinghamshire has been placed in tier 2, having gone into lockdown in tier 1.
Businesses are struggling, the hospitality sector without a proper December will be on its knees and I worry about the continuing impact on other health conditions and people’s mental health.
We need local decision making, not Whitehall instructions, to give as many people as possible their freedom back, whilst containing this virus in the places where the spread is genuinely very high.

Left to their instincts I expect all they'd have achieved is that we'd all have ended up in tier 4 eventually.

 

[elbows]

I suppose I will force myself to watch the imminent Johnson, Whitty & Vallance show.

 

[frogwoman]

498 deaths and 17555 new cases. I know you cant tell much from the data but it does seem to be on a plateau in terms of cases.

 

[SpookyFrank]

A handy map.

View attachment 240524

Well the lockdown clearly worked then.

 

[prunus]

Yes but only in tier 1 & 2 and you're obliged to follow the rules of the tier you actually live in when you get there. So for example it would be OK for a couple who live in South Kensington to go to their third home in Cornwall but not OK for them to mix with other people indoors when they get there. Its unclear whether they would have to order a meal with every glass of chilled Chablais.

At what point would they be considered inhabitants of the tier their second home was in? What if they stayed there for a month? Surely, logically, if the second home was in tier
2 and their main home in tier 1 they’d have be act like inhabitants of tier 2 on returning to main home? And vice versa, after a month in a tier 1 second home coming from a tier 2 main home surely, logically, they should be tier 1 inhabitants for the purposes of risk? (Possibly after just 14 days - I picked a month to avoid precise timings arguments).

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Indeed, normal service has been resumed.

8m ago 16:48



Left to their instincts I expect all they'd have achieved is that we'd all have ended up in tier 4 eventually.

I honestly wonder whether a lot of MPs believe in the future at all. If there was a hurricane warning they'd be wandering around outside saying "well it's not even breezy, can't go boarding things up, what about the economy eh?"

I mean I know the Cabinet's attitude is frequently that the consequences of what you do don't matter as long as you can spin your way out of them when the time comes. But I wonder whether this has gone on so long that there's a basic conceptual problem now.

 

[xenon]

Cat cafes. Totnes?

It is a thing, for weirdos, obviously but yeah.

 

[elbows]

I feel bad for tier 2 areas, since when discussing stuff in the press conference Whitty was clear that they think that at this time of year, tier 1 wont stop cases rising, they think tier 2 will keep levels roughly where they are but not reduce them, and only tier 3 is expected to bring numbers down. Being in Warwickshire I am in tier 3 this time so am not currently freaking out.

They also had a map like the BBC one so I wont post it, but it also contained this list of factors they currently use to set the tiers:



Meanwhile Johnson has gone from boxing an invisible mugger to wrestling with an envelope & his notes.

Oh the shitty journalists questions right now such as Kuenssberg asking what the point of the lockdown was if we were just going to end up with new measures like these afterwards. Maybe her new source is in the Covid Recovery Group of fuckwits.

 

[teuchter]

Seems an odd thing to have a dig at killer b for teuchter since he's one of the consistently more rational and less ideologically driven posters on here regarding this stuff

Why do you think it's a "dig"?

 

[elbows]

And now Peston asks why Whack-a-mole didnt work.

 

[elbows]

Whitty forced to reiterate that there is this thing called winter where brr its a bit nippy out.

 

[Raheem]

They've stupidly given Berkshire special treatment with Slough in tier 3 and the rest of it in tier 2. Presumably to try to placate some of the headbangers. But that could well turn out to be an Achilles heel, with MPs from all over the country asking why their lovely rural area can be split of from the neighbouring scummy bits too, and the government being unable to explain by Berkshire is a unique case.

 

[elbows]

"Madness is doing the same thing twice and expecting a different result" says Whitty.

 

[prunus]

"Madness is doing the same thing twice and expecting a different result" says Whitty.

Madness is electing Tories to be in charge and expecting them to do anything other than fuck the people, either through malice or incompetence. Or if you’re really lucky - an unholy mixture of both.

 

[Teaboy]

They've stupidly given Berkshire special treatment with Slough in tier 3 and the rest of it in tier 1. Presumably to try to placate some of the headbangers. But that could well turn out to be an Achilles heel, with MPs from all over the country asking why their lovely rural area can be split of from the neighbouring scummy bits too, and the government being unable to explain by Berkshire is a unique case.

There is nowhere in Berkshire that is in tier 1. Its all tier 2 except the areas in tier 3.

 

[Raheem]

There is nowhere in Berkshire that is in tier 1. Its all tier 2 except the areas in tier 3.

Yes, typo.

 

[elbows]

I honestly wonder whether a lot of MPs believe in the future at all. If there was a hurricane warning they'd be wandering around outside saying "well it's not even breezy, can't go boarding things up, what about the economy eh?"

Some but not all of the stances are from people who are comfortable in the knowledge that their stated preferred position isn't going to happen, so it will never be tested and they wont be blamed. A bit like Brexit, except that is going to be tested because that side accidentally got their way.

A similar thing seems to have happened in Northern Ireland recently. The DUP tried to ignore reality at the end of a period of tough restrictions, and then they got their way. And then they realised they would get blamed if it all went wrong and had left themselves no political or scientific cover, so they freaked out and did a giant u-turn by agreeing to new restrictions.

 

[elbows]

Whitty advises people not to hug and kiss an elderly relative, if you would like them to survive to be hugged in future.

 

[elbows]

JVT did not gatecrash the press conference in a cape whilst singing 'dont tier the rants out of it'.

 

[Teaboy]

Whitty advises people not to hug and kiss an elderly relative, if you would like them to survive to be hugged in future.

Best of luck stopping young kids giving gran and gramps a massive hug. Fortunately the young kids don't appear to be very infectious.

 

[D'wards]

We are so close to a vaccine. Cannot understand why people are fighting the lockdown, or even moaning.

Just hold it down for another 3 or so months and next spring will be fine

 

[killer b]

We are so close to a vaccine. Cannot understand why people are fighting the lockdown, or even moaning.

Just hold it down for another 3 or so months and next spring will be fine

because it's miserable and cold and we've all barely spoken to another human being in 6 months, the company we work is about to go under or already has done and jesus christ it's fucking shit, in most cases.

 

[xenon]

We are so close to a vaccine. Cannot understand why people are fighting the lockdown, or even moaning.

Just hold it down for another 3 or so months and next spring will be fine

slightly optimistic. It will be well into next year until it has any effect on restrictions.

 

[xenon]

And I aint staying in until June.

 

[Numbers]

JVT did not gatecrash the press conference in a cape whilst singing 'dont tier the rants out of it'.

<over>

 

[brogdale]

A handy map.

View attachment 240524

The associated numbers...



Not exactly a post-lockdown endorsement of the previous tiering arrangement.

 

[killer b]

That there was a lockdown at all suggests the previous tiering arrangement was flawed tbf. And there are multiple indicators that the previous tier 3 did have an impact.

 

[andysays]

The associated numbers...

View attachment 240531

Not exactly a post-lockdown endorsement of the previous tiering arrangement.

It doesn't strike me as a ringing endorsement of the actual "lockdown" either, if even after four weeks of national restrictions, we still need tighter tier based-restrictions than we had before