the christmas eve reductions are going to be amazing this year, they're really going to struggle to get the orders right.
Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion
- Thread starter Sasaferrato
- Start date
I am torn this year.
Try to avoid soopermarkets over Winterval but do love a bargain. Not seeing anyone this year so was thinking I might just get a frozen Turkey and or gammon roll for a few quid this weekend and be done with it. That said I had a scavange round a couple of soopermarkets a day or two after Winterval last year and did very well
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Yep and the tories have been spectacularly bad at managing this/ensuring people are community minded in their behaviour. Not surprising really, given their whole approach to society, the econony and life more generally is about a narrow individualism.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Turkey thank heavens isn’t that traditional here at Xmas . You can get it and it’s only a little more expensive as it is normally . I usually eat at my neighbours but don’t know what the restrictions will be here yet however if that’s off I’m going to buy seafood , salt cod and either goose or duck breasts for Xmas eve and Xmas day . Prob sit in my pyjamas and watch a load of old films Xmas Day , cook and drink some artisanal ales and later red wine . Boxing Day doesn’t exist here .I am torn this year.
Try to avoid soopermarkets over Winterval but do love a bargain. Not seeing anyone this year so was thinking I might just get a frozen Turkey and or gammon roll for a few quid this weekend and be done with it. That said I had a scavange round a couple of soopermarkets a day or two after Winterval last year and did very well
I am not that fussed about turkey tbh
The bulk of my effort goes on the roast potatoes, pigs in blankets and the gravy
I got loads goose fat and cranberry sauce in January this year already.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Tbh aside from when I was a kid I’ve never been that bothered about Xmas dinner .I am not that fussed about turkey tbh
The bulk of my effort goes on the roast potatoes, pigs in blankets and the gravy
I got loads goose fat and cranberry sauce in January this year already.
Numbers
an ting!
I prefer the picking and grazing you get in the days following a good Christmas dinner.
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
We skipped turkey for a nice roast pork or ham and it was much better.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
It will probably be better than now. But good enough to allow a fuck it do what you want weekend? I don't know and neither does anyone else. And I certainly don't share you confidence in the vaccine. I hope you are right but I am not convinced.
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frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Marks & Spencer to open 400 stores to midnight for Christmas
Late hours are part of drive by retailers to recoup billions in sales lost during lockdown
Marks & Spencer to open 400 stores to midnight for Christmas
Late hours are part of drive by retailers to recoup billions in sales lost during lockdownwww.theguardian.com
What about those who work in the stores FFS?
From page 843 -- apologies 
Our real Xmas (in normal years anyway
) is always at the ten days approaching the last weekend of June and thereafter 
maomao said:
Our real Xmas (in normal years anyway
) is always at the ten days approaching the last weekend of June and thereafter 
20Bees
Well-Known Member
On BBC Look East just now, health officials in Hertfordshire are saying 30% of people who tested positive contracted the virus whilst shopping, 20% in education settings (schools, universities and nurseries), 11% in healthcare settings, 9% eating out, and 5% exercising (gyms). The leader of Stevenage Borough Council said it should have been made clearer what was meant by ‘essential shopping’, as the reporter spoke to people shopping just for Christmas decorations.
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
Sorry but how much clearer do you need? If your idea of essential is Christmas decorations your insane.
Supine
Newt Member
Did they say how they know that?
20Bees
Well-Known Member
No, it was “We start tonight’s programme on why health officials in Herts say shopping, especially in supermarkets, is driving the spread of coronavirus in the county” - no source for their statistics was quoted.
andysays
Love and solidarity
Here's an interesting and surprisingly damning look at why the test and trace system isn't working
Coronavirus: Inside test-and-trace - how the 'world beater' went wrong
Coronavirus: Inside test-and-trace - how the 'world beater' went wrong
MrSki
Who am I to say you're wrong
Well they won't have anywhere else to go.
Poor old turkeys. The fat fuckers will be spared for turkey twizlers & the younguns will be at a premium.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
There's a bit of controversy about whether data can say where people actually catch coronavirus . According to Public Health UK 'common exposure data does not prove where people are contracting covid-19.It simply shows where people who have tested positive have been in the days leading up to their test and it is used to help identify possible outbreaks' . Which is all well and good but wasn't similar data was used to justify closing pubs, cafes and restaurants?
Supermarkets revealed as place visitors are most likely to be exposed to Covid | ITV News
Supermarkets were the most common location reported by people testing positive for Covid-19, new data shows. | ITV National News
www.itv.com
Supine
Newt Member
Basically yes.
Without backwards tracing to investate locations for spreading events it's just meaningless.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
It's not nonsense to investigate. It is nonsense to create estimates using invalid inferences. In that list of places above, you have 20% of people testing positive visiting supermarkets. What's the percentage of people who haven't caught covid visiting supermarkets? It's a meaningless stat if you don't also have that. If the percentage of people not catching it visiting supermarkets is also 20%, it could be that virtually nobody is catching it in supermarkets.
And the list of places visited in the report above fails to mention the most important place that everybody has visited - their own homes. Serology tests have shown big differences in infection rates depending on how many people you live with, so it is clear that ' own home' is one of the major places people are catching it, quite probably the no.1 major place.
20Bees
Well-Known Member
The link earlier in post 25,371 does list ‘household fewer than 5’ way down the list of figures from PHE, and that ITV report expands on the BBC local one.
As a supermarket cashier I would observe that it can be a very social setting where customers see someone they know, and greetings with hugs or handshakes are not at all uncommon. And the teenage staff in particular have little inclination for social distancing.
As a supermarket cashier I would observe that it can be a very social setting where customers see someone they know, and greetings with hugs or handshakes are not at all uncommon. And the teenage staff in particular have little inclination for social distancing.
Boudicca
Seaside Queen
A better question might be 'where do you think you are most likely to have caught it?'.
I'd also like to ask 'and were you following the guidelines at the time?' but I'm not hopeful of an accurate response.
On the other hand, I saw a couple of lads in Tesco who I think met in the supermarket to have a chat somewhere warm rather than buy anything.
I'd also like to ask 'and were you following the guidelines at the time?' but I'm not hopeful of an accurate response.
On the other hand, I saw a couple of lads in Tesco who I think met in the supermarket to have a chat somewhere warm rather than buy anything.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Such figures were wheeled out in the face of demands for strong evidence, but the evidence requested doesn't exist. Nor in my book does it need to exist in order to justify the approach to pubs and restaurants. Weaker evidence combined with no-brainer concepts about respiratory viruses is all that is required....
The risk is there anywhere that people mix. The risk is worse when people are indoors. Household transmission is the worst offender, but since households cannot be closed, the sources of the virus getting into a member of that household in the first place is the area to target. Hospitality is an obvious vector and in some ways its low-hanging fruit, because such locations can actually be closed, whereas much less can be done for other known risks such as working and health and social care, we can't just stop doing those other things.
For me the combination of basic facts about respiratory viral transmission and some data we do actually have showing increased risks for those who work in hospitality is more than sufficient evidence to justify closing hospitality, and I do not think more is required just because such closures are distressing to some people. Plus I strongly suspect that even if strong, direct evidence was presented, those who dont want to come to terms with these facts will then just quibble about the percentage. 'Only 7.5% (my made up number) of cases come from pubs' I can almost hear them crying now. To which my response would be, that's a fair chunk of the pie and justifies the closures. Numbers like that would just indicate to me that other settings need to be closed too, not that pubs had been unfairly targeted. I also look at what most other countries feel compelled to do and the similarities are obvious, hospitality is almost always part of the mix and results are achieved when these things are closed in combination with other measures.
Behind the scenes, this is the sort of things SAGE were saying in September when they were looking at the next required steps:
Thats a mostly fair summary of what it is reasonable to say without stronger evidence being available, and if I were a decision maker I would not hesitate to act on it. I am not interested in putting hospitality and close personal service workers at risk, and their customers, just because some people demand a stronger form of evidence than is available. Not that this would be my only focus, since I am also disgusted by the attempts to do education as normal, and by the falling rate of people working from home as demonstrated by another SAGE quote:
Both SAGE quotes are from a September 21st paper.
elbows
Well-Known Member
And I should also have said that the knowledge gaps are unfortunate and I would like to see more effort into improving that side of things. In many ways it goes hand in hand with improving contact tracing, very much including backwards contact tracing. The same SAGE paper does go on about that and includes quite a long list of suggested studies and analysis. Its a bit long for me to quote everything in that section but here is a bit:
From the same document as in my last post https://assets.publishing.service.g...ummary_of_effectiveness_and_harms_of_NPIs.pdf
Aside from PHEs somewhat improved attempts at the latter, I expect that if we ever reach the point where planned trials of reopening major sports for spectators and some entertainment events actually go ahead as planned, new data will emerge from those. Which does get a mention in the last part of their list:
So I am not against any of this further study, it is necessary and I'm annoyed more wasn't done on these fronts sooner. But in the absence of that stuff, I am a fan of acting on what we do know or can reasonably logically deduce.
(By the way, NPIs = non-pharmaceutical interventions)
From the same document as in my last post https://assets.publishing.service.g...ummary_of_effectiveness_and_harms_of_NPIs.pdf
Aside from PHEs somewhat improved attempts at the latter, I expect that if we ever reach the point where planned trials of reopening major sports for spectators and some entertainment events actually go ahead as planned, new data will emerge from those. Which does get a mention in the last part of their list:
So I am not against any of this further study, it is necessary and I'm annoyed more wasn't done on these fronts sooner. But in the absence of that stuff, I am a fan of acting on what we do know or can reasonably logically deduce.
(By the way, NPIs = non-pharmaceutical interventions)
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