I'm agreeing with you!
Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion
- Thread starter Sasaferrato
- Start date
I guess if nothing else, this crisis has revealed the vapidity of that old philosophical saw “what would you do if you could press a button and get a million pounds but a random person dies?” Turns out that most people in this country when presented with that situation for real are actually happy to hammer that button just for a chance to bicker with their mum for an afternoon.
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I know!
I think the fact that the virus overwhelmingly kills the elderly is a large reason why this has come about. If the virus was killing children and young adults to a much greater degree we'd now be seeing a very different public response. In fact we'd probably dealt with the problem by now.
andysays
Love and solidarity
I think it's absolutely reasonable that many people having been looking forward to having a normal Xmas, whatever that happens to mean to them.
Apart from anything else, there are obvious physiological and hence cultural reasons why we have a festival involving getting together with family etc and consuming lots of food and drink in the middle of winter.
But I also question whether it's entirely realistic to think that we can do it as normal this year.
And has already been mentioned, the blame for the absence of a realistic weighing up of the situation lies with the government and those who seek to prioritise the economy over public health.
Well, I don't think 'fuck those guys', no. That they don't have a clear grasp of the risks involved isn't totally their fault - none of us really do. and they deserve protection regardless.
Get that but one could argue that a lot of people are looking forward to being able to live, be in good health and other trifiling matters.
No, I mean that don’t you think those expressing the views you mentioned (“someone will die but it’s not me”) are effectively saying “... and fuck those guys”?
Nice of them to potentially risk leaving their kids full of worry if they end up sick. Or organising a funeral and explaining to the grandchildren (they wanted to see on jesus birthday) that they have died.
#gungho
andysays
Love and solidarity
And in many cases they will even be the same people wanting both those potentially contradictory things.
They effectively are, but I don't think it's something they've thought very hard about. The 'I'm prepared to die to hug my grandchildren!' stuff is a way of avoiding thinking about it and changing the internal narrative from one of selfishness to one of self sacrifice I think.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
That doesn't really represent the situation though does it?
They can press a button and get something and it might lead to someone dying.
But that's what everyone does every day in normal life anyway.
The button they are pressing is called “clamour to have restrictions lifted at Christmas”. And it will definitely result in thousands of people dying.
Totally agree about the need for something like Christmas at this time of year. Given how dark and grim the weather is its no surprise we want colourful and twinkly lights and indulgence.
I do slightly disagree that its a case of prioritising the economy over public health. The two are symbiotically linked and it should have been a question of how you protect both. The populist twats we have have protected neither.
Twinkly lights, food and drink will be available as they are all year round
Just eat them at home
In fact, thinking about this the most vocal grandma I'm thinking of talks about her willingness to die to embrace her grandchildren as if it's a universal feeling shared by all grandparents.
Twinkly lights, food and drink will be available as they are all year round
Just eat them at home
Of course. We were making general comments about why a festival at this time of year is important.
Cid
Proper break this time
I agree up to a point with what people are saying over the last couple of pages. I mean clearly from a strictly statistical perspective it is absolutely true that travelling and meeting for Christmas will kill people. But I can see why people will do it anyway. The situation of people with kids (which afaik, is not the situation of most posters for the last couple of pages) seems pretty distressing. On here and off here there are plenty of stories of children developing mental health problems. I mean how the fuck does a parent react to that?
Cleary that does not mean that meeting at Christmas is a solution. But Christmas has been allowed to become the pivot point that this wider problem rests on. It was always going to be without some kind of major government intervention... either in terms of actually bringing infection levels down in a managed way, or in terms of really raising understanding of the nature of the risks involved. This has not happened. And so humans will human.
Cleary that does not mean that meeting at Christmas is a solution. But Christmas has been allowed to become the pivot point that this wider problem rests on. It was always going to be without some kind of major government intervention... either in terms of actually bringing infection levels down in a managed way, or in terms of really raising understanding of the nature of the risks involved. This has not happened. And so humans will human.
ash
Inittogether
I agree that however much people try to be sensible and safe social and family meet ups ( unless in carefully regulated hospitality settings) have been a big source of infection. I witnessed this yesterday at a funeral. Initially everyone obeyed social distancing etc. The funeral was only 20 mins and then a chat outside afterwards. By the end people who said 'thats not allowed' at the beginning were hugging without masks. This was without alcohol in the equation as a wake was not allowed.
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MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
There isn't a direct causal connection between person A going to visit dear old Mum and person B dying in ICU a month later. There are LOTS of person A's doing things that will contribute collectively towards conditions that will result in lots of dead B's but the actions of an individual A doesn't matter which is what people think about. People don't think a great deal in terms of abstracts and even when they do such things get rapidly pushed aside where more immediate concerns come into play.
Don't go and see granny because you will give her the lurgy is one thing, Don't go and see granny who you might never see again because some total stranger at the other end of the country might die is just not going to cut it.
The lives and wellbeing of people we care about is worth far more than the lives and wellbeing of people we don't know, that's one of the most fundamental parts of our nature.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
That's exactly what I was thinking tbh. Not looking forward to an interminably long January and February+ lockdown because of a festival and time of year I hate anyway and which is almost always a shitshow in my house. A few months of lockdown next year is gonna put even more people out of work too, and will do the longer this drags on.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
I thought we were talking about individual decisions about what to do at Christmas.
If we're talking about pressing a button in favour of a policy that will definitely result in thousands of people dying, then, again, this is what we do all the time in regular life.
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
He just pinched the date off the pagans anywaySummer is nicer
Jesus is flexible these days
wtfftw
melting like a toastie
Literally just before i got covid I'd seen pretty much all my family for a 40th birthday. Mainly outside, I wore a mask indoors, each household had a separate loo. Probably shared serving utensils. I certainly kept better distance as teacher partner already had positive cases at school (so he didn't come).
So I either caught it on the weds/Thurs/,Fri. Saw everyone on Sunday. Maaybe caught it from stinky handyman on Monday. Symptomatic on Wednesday. Very relieved a fortnight later that everyone else was fine.
DOn't we all do that anyway. Eating meat, buying phones made from elements mined by kids, using plastic and oil?
Or does everyone just pretend it's a cost free path to consumer heaven.
I'm being a bit tongue in cheek as is probably obvious but you take my point...
bimble
floofy
The christmas thing I’m convinced (but have no evidence to support it obvs) that government simply knows that whatever they might decree on those particular days compliance would be tiny, so they just need for their own remaining credibility to appear to be allowing it to go ahead.
This just makes them look weak and pandering though. A strong message of don't travel cross country to see your family at this time. We know it's difficult etc...
Bbut that's about pah for this lot. Weak, venal and a bit dim. They could actually have won back some confidence with a stronger message on this but no, they do the obvious thing. Dismal cunts.
bimble
floofy
Barnard castle, after that imo it just would not work. I mean the people who would heed it will probably just not do it anyway, because they give a shit.
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