Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[LeytonCatLady]

I hate this whole situation. I know it has to be done, but I feel very depressed today at the thought of not being allowed to see my friends or family, busk or socialise for up to 18 months, and only go to the supermarket. It doesn't seem right we have all this advanced science and they can't hurry up and contain it without practically putting us all on house arrest.

Just needed to rant, sorry.

 

[Brainaddict]

No one knows how fast it mutates because it hasn't done so in any significant way yet.

I'm all for criticising the govt's response here, but no need to spread more fear with stuff like this.

The current thinking is that if you've had it, you're immune from catching it again for at least a while.

Yep. And I was chatting to someone yesterday who thinks the real apocalypse to be scared of is next winter, when it will have the full winter to run riot, and that there is therefore benefit to more people getting it in the summer. Problem is, this government is so lacking in transparency and competence and empathy that we're left working out what the hell they're trying to do or if they even care.

 

[RTWL]

Weed is indeed in short supply.

Oh yes. There was one thing I have panic bought ... only got 2 ounces though .... at a stretch thats only a month .... best start a grow !

 

[existentialist]

I honestly don't understand how the fuck they thought that this "herd immunity" strategy would work. Any immunity gained from this virus won't last because of the rate at which it mutates. It spreads very easily, and a lot of people who do catch it will exhibit mild symptoms that don't exactly force one to stay in bed all day, meaning they are more likely to spread it about.

Dangerous fucking idiots. Toss them out NOW.

From what I understand it, this SARS-CoV-2 isn't likely to be a rapidly mutating variety. It has quite good error correction for its RNA, so seems to stay quite stable. That was from a BBC Inside Health podcast about the virus.

 

[Sasaferrato]

This is a fair point, but it's important to remember that it has to be set in the context of rationing which ensured that everyone just about got what was needed to keep going and without the immediate food insecurity of just-in-time systems of stock control.

Yes, the shortfalls in the 'just in time' system are very clear at the moment.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Oh yes. There was one thing I have panic bought ... only got 2 ounces though .... at a stretch thats only a month .... best start a grow !

Well, if this shit goes on and on... PM me when it has grown.

 

[Sprocket.]

Yes, the shortfalls in the 'just in time' system are very clear at the moment.

And how precarious the whole system is too, sadly.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Just had a text from my surgery 'Don't come here unless you are ill'. Well, that's this afternoon's social call out of the window.

 

[Azrael]

LeytonCatLady

Evidence we have suggests we can contain it without mass house arrest, as multiple Asian countries have done, either by stopping it gaining a foothold as Taiwan and Singapore did, or via South Korea's mass testing and contact tracing programme.

Lockdowns are emergency measures to regain control when containment's failed, measures that're strictly temporary (they're already being lifted in China). This just isn't being communicated here, likely because Whitehall's still working off mathematical models that take no account of the suppressive effect of testing, tracing and isolation.

We (and this extends to much of the West) simply refused to listen to Asian countries who knew what they were dealing with and how to fight it. That hubris has gotta be junked fast.

 

[Sasaferrato]

And how precarious the whole system is too, sadly.

We are about to realise how much of our food comes from places where it isn't being produced at the moment.

 

[Kaka Tim]

its the way the UKs response is so out of step with everywhere else that is so troubling - especially when you look at whos making the decisions - people with a hard on for "creative chaos" and social darwinism.

 

[chilango]

Fair enough there is a difference in defiitions. But which is more likely in London May 2020? This isnt Paris after a year long siege.

Point remains about immediate priorities and immediate demands. Is the immediate priority for socially-minded individuals to be out in big groups and breaking into warehouses and company supplies? No. There are much more humble positive actions that can be done that dont involve Paris Commune Fantasy Roleplay. Sure, if things actually got to the severe necessity and breakdown that this was appropriate, then that might be different.

But that wasnt what I was talking about with 'looting' in the context of a pandemic health crisis. What were anarchists and communists doing in East London during the Blitz? Def not helping themselves while others were suffering. Did that mean they uncritically agreed with the state and didnt agitate in other ways? Er no.

Aye.

But my point was simply a reminder that looting is a broad term, and if we uncritically define it in reference to an individualized, anti-social extreme we are laying the groundwork for the Right to order all kinds of shit.

 

[Azrael]

From what I understand it, this SARS-CoV-2 isn't likely to be a rapidly mutating variety. It has quite good error correction for its RNA, so seems to stay quite stable. That was from a BBC Inside Health podcast about the virus.

Yes, what I've read suggests it does confer a degree of immunity (although virologist after virologist has said it's far too early to know how much and how long, and there have been credible reports of possible reinfection in some cases). The issue was the horrific death toll required for what amounted to a punt on dodging a hypothetical second wave (itself based on influenza modeling).

 

[LeytonCatLady]

LeytonCatLady

Evidence we have suggests we can contain it without mass house arrest, as multiple Asian countries have done, either by stopping it gaining a foothold as Taiwan and Singapore did, or via South Korea's mass testing and contact tracing programme.

Lockdowns are emergency measures to regain control when containment's failed, measures that're strictly temporary (they're already being lifted in China). This just isn't being communicated here, likely because Whitehall's still working off mathematical models that take no account of the suppressive effect of testing, tracing and isolation.

We (and this extends to much of the West) simply refused to listen to Asian countries who knew what they were dealing with and how to fight it. That hubris has gotta be junked fast.

Oh I know. It's the not knowing that's driving me insane. And I know everyone's in the same boat, so I'm not saying this for pity-me purposes. It's just hard.

 

[Fez909]

The issue was the horrific death toll required for what amounted to a punt on dodging a hypothetical second wave (itself based on influenza modeling).

I think there's a decent probability it would 'work' - by that I mean you wouldn't get your big second wave if you let everyone get it this summer.

But it's just not an acceptable amount of deaths, even for a heartless bastard like a Tory.

 

[NoXion]

No one knows how fast it mutates because it hasn't done so in any significant way yet.

I'm all for criticising the govt's response here, but no need to spread more fear with stuff like this.

The current thinking is that if you've had it, you're immune from catching it again for at least a while.

Faster mutation doesn't necessarily mean that it's hard to deal with, as I understand these things. It just requires a strategy that isn't "let's get everyone infected" or something similarly fucking brain-dead.

From what I understand it, this SARS-CoV-2 isn't likely to be a rapidly mutating variety. It has quite good error correction for its RNA, so seems to stay quite stable. That was from a BBC Inside Health podcast about the virus.

Maybe it doesn't mutate especially fast, but everything I've read indicates that acquired immunity from this coronavirus doesn't last. The herd immunity "strategy" will do nothing but drag this out.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Maybe I'll be proven wrong by events but I still think the likelihood of armed forces personnel enforcing law and order and curfews and what not is pretty... remote.

I can see troops patrolling with coppers, in a support role, I'll be surprised to see armed troops on the streets accept when they are guarding places like parliament.

For now, at least.

 

[brogdale]

I can see troops patrolling with coppers, in a support role, I'll be surprised to see armed troops on the streets accept when they are guarding places like parliament.

For now, at least.

Yeah, I'd imagine that we'll see them doing pretty much what they're doing in Italy, Spain & France

 

[Badgers]

base level of faith in the government

Sorry what?

 

[planetgeli]

One of the top 'liked' comments btl in the Guardian live blog at the moment ('JamesinDerbyshire') states we are not far short of needing martial law and that looters should be shot on sight.

A reminder.

Looters, so far, 0.

Hoarders, so far, many hundreds of thousands.

This governing in a crisis lark is a piece of piss.

 

[Azrael]

Sorry what?

For someone as distrustful of the state as me, that's little more than "least they're better than a gang of robbers." Right now I'd gladly take the robbers.

 

[Badgers]

For someone as distrustful of the state as me, that's little more than "least they're better than a gang of robbers." Right now I'd gladly take the robbers.

I would have them put against the wall frankly.
We would be better off under a feudal system that carrying the current lot.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

LeytonCatLady

Evidence we have suggests we can contain it without mass house arrest, as multiple Asian countries have done, either by stopping it gaining a foothold as Taiwan and Singapore did, or via South Korea's mass testing and contact tracing programme.

Lockdowns are emergency measures to regain control when containment's failed, measures that're strictly temporary (they're already being lifted in China). This just isn't being communicated here, likely because Whitehall's still working off mathematical models that take no account of the suppressive effect of testing, tracing and isolation.

We (and this extends to much of the West) simply refused to listen to Asian countries who knew what they were dealing with and how to fight it. That hubris has gotta be junked fast.

Yep, totally this. The contact tracing programme seems especially important. Will require an army of people to do all the detective work, but guess what, an army of people have just been put out of work.

 

[cantsin]

this is really scary too (guardian about 1/2 an hour old):

"The European Union’s industry chief has called on Netflix and other streaming services to take action to reduce congestion on the internet, amid surging demand as millions of people confined to their homes go online.
Thierry Breton, the European commissioner for industry, told Netflix chief executive Reed Hastings that he and other operators should take responsibility for preventing internet congestion by switching to standard definition rather than high definition."

If netflix breaks the army will be busy.

the idea of 20K troops arriving in London on the eve off lockdown just for cross services / civil purposes is a tough one to swallow

Thugs smash doors of London Sainsbury's as capital approaches lockdown

A gang of thugs smashed a Sainsbury's shop front in south London in a nighttime raid as supermarkets come under huge pressure amid coronavirus fears (pictured, crime scene).

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Pickman's model]

its the way the UKs response is so out of step with everywhere else that is so troubling - especially when you look at whos making the decisions - people with a hard on for "creative chaos" and social darwinism.

I don't care about their social darwinism, it's that they're utterly incompetent and the way they're dealing with cv is just as good as the way they've dealt with all the other issues this fuckwitted administration has faced. Like the way Johnson agreed a deal worse than theresa may's with the EU.

 

[Duncan2]

Almost wish someone could modify the Bat-Signal to summon Gordon back to Downing Street.

 

[Pickman's model]

Almost wish someone could modify the Bat-Signal to summon Gordon back to Downing Street.

Commissioner gordon?

 

[prunus]

Commissioner gordon?

I’d take Gordon the Gopher even - fucking anyone other than this shower of shite.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Yep. And I was chatting to someone yesterday who thinks the real apocalypse to be scared of is next winter, when it will have the full winter to run riot, and that there is therefore benefit to more people getting it in the summer. Problem is, this government is so lacking in transparency and competence and empathy that we're left working out what the hell they're trying to do or if they even care.

I don't think that Labour would have been any better.

This is unprecedented, no government in pretty much living memory has had to deal with something like this.

There are a huge number of unknowns, and it is inevitable that as knowledge grows, government advice and action will change. That isn't something to be critical of, what would deserve criticism is not responding to increasing knowledge.

 

[Kaka Tim]

have we had any reminders about avoiding socialising? any official social media stuff? a poster? cos i have seen nothing. If they aren't shutting pubs and cafes etc - they could at least give some advice on "safer" socialising - and point out that things like karaoke at not a good idea right now. And are bingo halls still running? Its bizarre. Is it "herd immunity" on the quiet?