Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[farmerbarleymow]

Whitty's main problem is that he looks far too like Chris Grayling, and therefore always freaks me out when he comes on TV.

He always looks like he's smirking a bit - or trying not to laugh (probably at the cunt stood his left). Quite offputting.

 

[existentialist]

Where did I read this?

in 2016 (I think) in London there was a simulated training event, for emergency services, which simulated a virus attack on the UK. There were lessons learnt as a conclusion. One of the key lessons was that Britain did not have nearly enough ventilators.

But it seems no remedial action was taken.

And now I hear in their desire for the manufacture of ventilators that JCB and car makers have been mentioned. Would you really turn to a heavy machinery manufacturer or a car producer to produce medical equipment to medical standards? Especially when there are volume ventilator manufacturers in Ireland whose output could be increased by the application of skills and resources. I would start with existing manufacturers, aiming to find ways to increase their output significantly, then also other makers of medical equipment who already have clean room medical manufacturing in place.

I hate to break it to you like this, weltweit, but there just might be someone who's actually involved in the manufacturing industries who might have thought this through already.

 

[maomao]

I hate to break it to you like this, weltweit, but there just might be someone who's actually involved in the manufacturing industries who might have thought this through already.

weltweit is in the manufacturing industry as far as I know.

 

[elbows]

You can't get non medical device manufacturerd to make ventilators for a huge number of reasons. Including iso13485 accreditation, design master files, company quality management systems, quality control standards, procedures and personnel and performance validation. It's just desperate measures from an idiotic government that could kill patients easily if not done properly.

I'd rather have a ventilator that does not adhere to the rules of normal times than no ventilator at all.

Corners will be cut during this pandemic, some of which have consequences. But in some areas those consequences will still be much better than doing nothing, or trying to do things in the normal way with the normal rules and timetables.

I have no idea which of these proposals will actually happen, and whether the timing and results will allow them to make a real difference. Possibly. I am not happy that the world and this country did not build this capacity into healthcare systems and manufacturing during normal times, but now that we are in this situation, I will probably end up cheering some efforts that I would otherwise have regarded as terrible.

 

[Ladystardust]

the problem is johnson is handing over all responsibility to a man that isn't prime minister. he's hiding behind the experts when what he really should be doing is talking to lots of them and then making a fucking decision as a leader. i feel like this chris witty bloke is the fall guy, it should be johnson and johnson alone.

 

[maomao]

What a performance from Boris. I don't understand his continued popularity with Tories. He's hardly a strongman is he. He's an inneffectual and irresponsible prick. The response to the question on price gouging was fucking comical. 'please be nice'. How about using some of your emergency powers to lock the cunts up eh? God knows you'll be flexing your muscles with the over the top sentences when the other side of the same problem pops up in the form of looting.

Hope the murderous toff cunt dies in pain. Seriously considering fucking this country off and going back to China if things get any worse.

 

[Supine]

I'd rather have a ventilator that does not adhere to the rules of normal times than no ventilator at all.

Corners will be cut during this pandemic, some of which have consequences.

As one doctor pointed out a faulty ventilator is more likely to kill a patient than cure them.

 

[maomao]

it should be johnson and johnson alone.

In the stocks facing a barrage of bricks.

 

[elbows]

As one doctor pointed out a faulty ventilator is more likely to kill a patient than cure them.

And no ventilator being available at all will kill many Covid-19 patients.

 

[elbows]

the problem is johnson is handing over all responsibility to a man that isn't prime minister. he's hiding behind the experts when what he really should be doing is talking to lots of them and then making a fucking decision as a leader. i feel like this chris witty bloke is the fall guy, it should be johnson and johnson alone.

God no. The world over uses experts in such roles at such times, and there are reasons public health bodies etc have their own talking heads. Johnson cant do that sort of detail, nor would people take it as authoritative if it comes only from him.

Behind the scenes there are layers of formal scientific advice, eg SAGE (Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies). Johnsons politics instincts on such matters suck, and his influence on the decision making process can be negative in many ways. But the science people can mess it up too even without Johnson, as we saw a week ago (herd immunity doom narrative from Vallance, and large u-turn over the subsequent 4 days).

 

[cupid_stunt]

the problem is johnson is handing over all responsibility to a man that isn't prime minister. he's hiding behind the experts when what he really should be doing is talking to lots of them and then making a fucking decision as a leader. i feel like this chris witty bloke is the fall guy, it should be johnson and johnson alone.

It's not just him, but also the chief scientific adviser, both working with their opposite numbers in Scotland, Wales & NI - all of which have a whole team of experts advising them.

 

[elbows]

Was this the lockdown thread? Looks like it's been merged? Can someone confirm? I think it was worth having a thread specifically on that topic. This is now on several topics simultaneously.

Yes it got merged, there is a thread about tidying up this forum. I think it deserved its own thread. I suggest that when stronger measures are applied to London (or the country as a whole), someone start a new one on that topic. Because there will be far too much UK-specific news in the weeks ahead to imagine it all going in this one thread.

 

[elbows]

Regarding the ventilator manufacture, its also possible to imagine a mixed solution.

eg it could be that some companies just end up making certain very specific parts, and the actual overall design, assembly etc is still left to companies who already have that specialisation. Or it could be that people from such specialist companies are seconded into other sorts of manufacturers to oversee more all-encompassing manufacture of devices by these companies.

Its far from ideal but necessity is the mother of invention and I am far beyond thinking in a mode appropriate to normal times, that orthodox stuff is now a luxury we cant afford.

Not that any of this means I think this stuff will end up being a massively relevant part of how things go - it could be, but depending on timing and scale and practicalities it may still end up a dead end gimmick that goes nowhere.

 

[weltweit]

I hate to break it to you like this, weltweit, but there just might be someone who's actually involved in the manufacturing industries who might have thought this through already.

I do work in manufacturing existentialist and have done for most of the last 30 years, we have been contacted by a number of engineering consultancies hunting for elusive new UK ventilators or components of the same in the last few days. My hope is that government has been wise enough to expend a greater energy in significantly ramping up the production of existing ventilator manufacturers rather than simply splurging on consultants, heavy equipment or car manufacturers whose methods and standards are not suited to ventilator manufacture.

 

[bimble]

we had a meeting earlier and due to the nature of my job, we were told to send in our details , passport number etc so we can get a letter from the govt , to show , to prove we are allowed out and about.

It maybe precautionary but the fact it was even said was a bit mad

Sat here looking at this post, this is such a weird situation emotionally, to feel reassured they are at taking those steps to basically lock everyone apart from you up.

 

[Athos]

As one doctor pointed out a faulty ventilator is more likely to kill a patient than cure them.

But surely 100 ventilators of which, say, 10 are faulty would have a net benefit over zero ventilators?

 

[Artaxerxes]

I do work in manufacturing existentialist and have done for most of the last 30 years, we have been contacted by a number of engineering consultancies hunting for elusive new UK ventilators or components of the same in the last few days. My hope is that government has been wise enough to expend a greater energy in significantly ramping up the production of existing ventilator manufacturers rather than simply splurging on consultants, heavy equipment or car manufacturers whose methods and standards are not suited to ventilator manufacture.

I hear there’s a ferry company able to do fine work making ventilators these days.

 

[weltweit]

Regarding the ventilator manufacture, its also possible to imagine a mixed solution.

eg it could be that some companies just end up making certain very specific parts, and the actual overall design, assembly etc is still left to companies who already have that specialisation. Or it could be that people from such specialist companies are seconded into other sorts of manufacturers to oversee more all-encompassing manufacture of devices by these companies.
..

That would be a factor in increasing the output of existing manufacturers, working out where their bottlenecks are and adding resource to those areas whether it be more people or manufacturing capacity either on site or external or more money, what would it take to increase their output by 5 times perhaps would elicit where their restrictions were.

There is loads of UK electronics subcontract capacity which could be brought to bear, mouldings could be an issue depending on tool construction (single or multiple cavity construction), even if moulding machines were run 24/7 there will be a maximum output, unfortunately making more injection mould tools does take time but given the length of the disruption could still be worth it. Final assembly would likely be a human factor and if the lines are not running 24/7 more staff could be trained to go to three shifts. There are lots of things that could be done ideally where a skills base exists. Starting from scratch is not going to compete with this solution imho.

 

[DaveCinzano]

I thought the silence from the other two after he said that, while he desperately cast about to get them to take over and save him confirm it, said loads. They looked pretty horrified.

It was like a particularly bad tryout for a regular slot on LBC once he gets heaved out - all meandering waffle and unconvincing time-filling. Partridge would scoff at his amateurism.

 

[strung out]

weltweit is in the manufacturing industry as far as I know.

Don't know about you but I was quite enjoying watching a counsellor man(ufacture)splain to someone who works in manufacturing.

 

[ruffneck23]

Sat here looking at this post, this is such a weird situation emotionally, to feel reassured they are at taking those steps to basically lock everyone apart from you up.

Im quite happy being on lock down , not so happy to have a letter saying I dont have to be

 

[Nine Bob Note]

it should be johnson and johnson alone.

Way to let Loreal and Garnier off the hook...

 

[gentlegreen]

I'd rather have a ventilator that does not adhere to the rules of normal times than no ventilator at all.

Corners will be cut during this pandemic, some of which have consequences. But in some areas those consequences will still be much better than doing nothing, or trying to do things in the normal way with the normal rules and timetables.

red tape and "experts" ?

These things are pumping up the lungs - what could possibly go wrong ?

I bet that nice mr Dyson has something on the back burner ...

... except he shut down his UK manufacturing ... oopsie ....

 

[two sheds]

red tape and "experts" ?

These things are pumping up the lungs - what could possibly go wrong ?

I bet that nice mr Dyson has something on the back burner ...

... except he shut down his UK manufacturing ... oopsie ....

... and he's specialized in sucking rather than blowing you'd get a lungfull of dust

 

[weltweit]

I understand in China they used lots of ECMO machines (extracorporeal membrane oxygenation) in their intensive care, as far as I know they haven't been mentioned here as being in short supply in the NHS, do any NHS practitioners know more about this?

 

[xes]

He always looks like he's smirking a bit - or trying not to laugh (probably at the cunt stood his left). Quite offputting.

Is he the one who's upset the guy who makes his suits?

 

[Ladystardust]

It's not just him, but also the chief scientific adviser, both working with their opposite numbers in Scotland, Wales & NI - all of which have a whole team of experts advising them.

yeah i get what you mean, but it's the, "over to you shit" "nothing to do with me" "these are the experts, I'm just that funny bloke on have i got news for you", i basically just hate boris johnson. i suppose that's it. jesus.

 

[ska invita]

Well personally I'm glad to hear freedom of movement will still continue in London for a little longer, though i'm under no illusion it will last, not least because BJ is a professional liar. Particularly good for tradespeople I think. Once it stops thats income over for them too.
Looks like the next step is closing "pubs, restaurants, shops and gyms ". This weekend? London only?
If people have nowhere to go other than the chemist and superbogrollmarket I dont really see a need to stop freedom of movement

 

[elbows]

red tape and "experts" ?

These things are pumping up the lungs - what could possibly go wrong ?

But I'm not comparing it to what we should have or how things should be done. I'm talking about it in the context of thousands of people needing intensive care, and of capacity being overloaded many times over. Its a desperation move for sure.

 

[elbows]

I understand in China they used lots of ECMO machines (extracorporeal membrane oxygenation) in their intensive care, as far as I know they haven't been mentioned here as being in short supply in the NHS, do any NHS practitioners know more about this?

They are a tiny resource in the UK.

Coronavirus: England only has 15 beds for worst respiratory cases

NHS says system will struggle if more than 28 patients need artificial lung treatment

www.theguardian.com