Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[LDC]

As I see it, I cannot go to see my relatives at their home but I can meet them in a pub

Yes, that's right. I know people really struggle to understand why this is the case as it doesn't seem to make 'common sense', but people should have got their heads round the reasons why there are rules like this by now.

There's a difference between 'mixed messaging' and it being something you don't understand.

 

[BCBlues]

Yes, that's right. I know people really struggle to understand why this is the case as it doesn't seem to make 'common sense', but people should have got their heads round the reasons why there are rules like this by now.

There's a difference between 'mixed messaging' and it being something you don't understand.

In an ideal world maybe but a lot of people are still getting genuinely confused and angry at the contradictions which will lead to all sorts of breaches and defiance.

 

[sheothebudworths]

As I see it, I cannot go to see my relatives at their home but I can meet them in a pub

Yes, that's right. I know people really struggle to understand why this is the case as it doesn't seem to make 'common sense', but people should have got their heads round the reasons why there are rules like this by now.

Meet granny in the pub, to mingle with all the other groups of 6, cos £££, basically.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Live updates - Birmingham, Solihull and Sandwell in lockdown- with ban on home visitors Live updates - Birmingham goes into lockdown- with ban on home visitors

As I see it, I cannot go to see my relatives at their home but I can meet them in a pub

Not sure that's right, it says "the lockdown measures will mean households in Sandwell, Birmingham and Solihull will not be able to mix from September 15", which to me implies no mixing anywhere.

 

[xenon]

It does make sense though. They're trying to allow as much of the economy to function whilst placing restrictions on the areas the data indicates most cases are occurring. i.e in the household. Hopefully the restrictions on no household visits, should only be in place for a few weeks.


On the general restrictions of 6, was listening to the radio earlier. Getting a bit fed up with the whiners on there, saying why can't all 8 of us meet up, blah blah, my children, grand kids etc. FUcksake, just meet in shifts. Thought the older generations were supposed to be the stiff upper lip lot. And other idiots just trying to think of loop holes to get round this.

 

[xenon]

Meet granny in the pub, to mingle with all the other groups of 6, cos £££, basically.

What's the alternative though? Close all the pubs, let people meet in groups of how ever many they want to in doors? The virus still spreads and all those businesses just scraping buy get to go bust.

Yes, you could say, more furlough etc but that's not gonna happen, at least not ATM.

Again, I'm not defending this government but let's not pretend there are easy answers to a lot of this. Track and trace all, that absolutely needs to be funded, run military style no argument. What happened to seweage tests as well.

 

[ash]

It does make sense though. They're trying to allow as much of the economy to function whilst placing restrictions on the areas the data indicates most cases are occurring. i.e in the household. Hopefully the restrictions on no household visits, should hopefully only be in place for a few weeks.


On the general restrictions of 6, was listening to the radio earlier. Getting a bit fed up with the whiners on there, saying why can't all 8 of us meet up, blah blah, my children, grand kids etc. FUcksake, just meet in shifts. Thought the older generations were supposed to be the stiff upper lip lot. And other idiots just trying to think of loop holes to get round this.

LBC ??

 

[Roadkill]

I've just had an invitation to participate in a Covid infection survey, either weekly tests for a month or monthly tests for a year. Given that I'm going back to the office full-time from next week, and in an environment where outbreaks are pretty likely, I'm minded to sign up. Besides, at a general level surveillance testing like this has to be part of the solution to containing the virus.

My only slight reservation is that IQVIA are running the tests on the ground, and I know little about them beyond what a brief Google has thrown up. If they're some fly-by-night firm that's been handed a fat contract under the 'emergency' regulations then I'm not interested. Anyone know anything about them?

They're even offering payment to take part in this, although in the form of 'vouchers.' I'd like to know a bit more about what these can be used for, since if they're tied to shitty firms like Amazon then they're no use to me.

 

[sheothebudworths]

Not sure that's right, it says "the lockdown measures will mean households in Sandwell, Birmingham and Solihull will not be able to mix from September 15", which to me implies no mixing anywhere.

The headline is...
Birmingham, Solihull and Sandwell in lockdown with ban on home visitors

 

[littlebabyjesus]

What's the alternative though? CLose all the pubs, let people meet in groups of how ever many they want to in doors? The virus still spreads and all those businesses just scraping buy get to go bust.

Yes, you could say, more furlow etc but that's not gonna happen, at least not ATM.

Again, I'm not defending this government but let's not pretend there ar easy answers to a lot of this. Track and trace all, that absolutely needs to be funded, run military style no argument. What happened to seweage tests as well.

The Welsh solution? Indoors, it's six. Outdoors it's more because outdoors is safer. Surely half of the point of this kind of thing is to encourage safer options.

 

[xenon]

The Welsh solution? Indoors, it's six. Outdoors it's more because outdoors is safer. Surely half of the point of this kind of thing is to encourage safer options.

The differences between the nations is ridiculous. Wales only just making mask wearing on public transport mandatory. The under 12s not counting. What does an outdoor meeting of 30 even mean. Who's that benefit. Groups of thirty who decide to meat down the park? How often is that a thing.
In the garden all coming in to use the loo?


Looks a bit petty political point scoring. Our rules are less strict than yours.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The differences between the nations is ridiculous. Wales only just making mask wearing on public transport mandatory. The under 12s not counting. What does an outdoor meeting of 30 even mean. Who's that benefit. Groups of thirty who decide to meat down the park? How often is that a thing.
In the garden all coming in to use the loo?


Looks a bit petty political point scoring. Our rules are less strict than yours.

I've seen a few groups of perhaps 15 - 20 people sat around in large circles in the parks. They're obviously trying to be reasonable and responsible, holding birthday parties and the like, improvised wedding receptions or similar even by the looks of a couple of them.

 

[LDC]

Meet granny in the pub, to mingle with all the other groups of 6, cos £££, basically.

No, it's not the only reason at all.

Among other reasons social distancing is very hard to do in private residences, cleaning of surfaces is done less, ventilation is often worse, etc., and many studies show that in some areas is that households are the main factor in infection rate going up. Hence households being first to be restricted. Pubs etc. might well come soon as well.

 

[LDC]

In an ideal world maybe but a lot of people are still getting genuinely confused and angry at the contradictions which will lead to all sorts of breaches and defiance.

So the simplest message is stay at home, don't meet anyone outside your house anywhere. But that's not realistic is it?

So anything else is going to be a balance of various factors, and yes, possibly 'confusing and contradictory' if you look for that.

 

[sheothebudworths]

Again, I'm not defending this government but let's not pretend there are easy answers to a lot of this. Track and trace all, that absolutely needs to be funded, run military style no argument. What happened to seweage tests as well.

There aren't easy answers - I was just expanding on one obvious 'reason' though - and how/why that could put some people at further risk.
But yes, testing - fucking testing - it's been months now. There is absolutely no excuse for what's happening there - it should have been the single most important thing to focus on and funnily enough it's not been because.... they've been too busy hurling ££££'s into shit contracts for their fucking inept mates, instead of where it needed to go.

 

[LDC]

The Welsh solution? Indoors, it's six. Outdoors it's more because outdoors is safer. Surely half of the point of this kind of thing is to encourage safer options.

One of the big criticisms people have made (very regularly on here as well) was that rules were confusing, that's a big reason why they've kept it as 6 across the board in England.

 

[BCBlues]

Not sure that's right, it says "the lockdown measures will mean households in Sandwell, Birmingham and Solihull will not be able to mix from September 15", which to me implies no mixing anywhere.

From BrumLive;

....there are a host of questions and talking points but the key one is this - households in Birmingham, Solihull and Sandwell cannot meet with any other household in a home or garden - regardless of location.

The restriction will come into force on Tuesday, September 15 and is over and above national rules limiting meet-ups to six people.

Residents were urged to “act responsibly” this weekend ahead of the restriction coming in and it will be reviewed every Friday.

Groups of six WILL still be able to meet in pubs and restaurants because analysis suggests the spike in Midland cases is being driven by gatherings in homes, Birmingham City Council leader Coun Ian Ward told reporters....

It states that the new restrictions are over and above the 6 people rule, but, six people can still meet in a pub or restaurant but cannot be from other family households. So you can meet 5 randoms who you know nothing about but not family members who you know are observing all precautions.

How on earth does that make sense, how is it to be policed ?Wheres the proof that its households mingling that are causing the problems when most spikes I am aware of are around here are in workplaces, schools and the hostel in Edgbaston where Serco failed to control a spread which led to over 60 positive cases.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

One of the big criticisms people have made (very regularly on here as well) was that rules were confusing, that's a big reason why they've kept it as 6 across the board in England.

What's confusing about the Welsh rule? Setting aside whether you think it's right, it's up to 30 in an open outdoors space like a park, six in an indoors space like a house. I don't see anything confusing about that, and it's justifiable from what we know about transmission. Six anywhere, no excuses and fucking wardens policing us in the outdoors spaces where we're actually way safer makes no sense whatever.

Plus, as I've said before, if you're planning a bigger group than six, it's far easier to hide it in a house than in a park. So you're in danger of encouraging a thing you want to avoid by banning a less bad thing. Not only does it make little sense, it risks backfiring as a tactic.

 

[cupid_stunt]

The headline is...
Birmingham, Solihull and Sandwell in lockdown with ban on home visitors

But, that's a local rag, and I think the headline is misleading.

The West Midlands mayor, Andy Street, announced the restrictions on household mixing in Birmingham and neighbouring Solihull and Sandwell boroughs.

Mr Street said he had been permitted to read out a statement headed "Ban on household mixing in Birmingham, Sandwell and Solihull", with the agreement of Health Secretary Matt Hancock, who had been due to make the announcement.

The Health Secretary has said guidance that residents cannot socialise outside of their households in the city will become law.

Birmingham put in local lockdown after coronavirus infections spike

Tough new Covid-19 restrictions in Birmingham and neighbouring Sandwell and Solihull will come into effect next week, and they come as new figures show the city has England's third highest rate of infection behind Bolton and Sunderland

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[BCBlues]

So the simplest message is stay at home, don't meet anyone outside your house anywhere. But that's not realistic is it?

So anything else is going to be a balance of various factors, and yes, possibly 'confusing and contradictory' if you look for that.

I'm trying to put it nice here but there is a vast number of people who will struggle with basic instructions at the best of times for lots of reasons. Having contradictory instructions is the last thing they need. They're a separate issue to the ones who will disregard any contradictory guidance for their own selfish wants and use the vagueness as an excuse.

 

[mx wcfc]

How is track and trace going to work when this is the approach adopted by big business?

(note managers self isolated, but told staff they were on holiday)

Kempshott Sainsbury's staff told to "keep quiet" over Covid case and threatened with "disciplinaries"

Sainsbury’s staff were told to keep quiet and threatened with disciplinaries if they discussed a coronavirus case, it has been claimed.

www.basingstokegazette.co.uk

 

[cupid_stunt]

Groups of six WILL still be able to meet in pubs and restaurants because analysis suggests the spike in Midland cases is being driven by gatherings in homes, Birmingham City Council leader Coun Ian Ward told reporters....

Great, different media is reporting slightly different versions.

I guess we'll have wait until the full details are posted on this page:

National lockdown: Stay at Home

Coronavirus cases are rising rapidly across the country. Find out what you can and cannot do.

www.gov.uk

 

[sheothebudworths]

But, that's a local rag, and I think the headline is misleading.

Birmingham put in local lockdown after coronavirus infections spike

Tough new Covid-19 restrictions in Birmingham and neighbouring Sandwell and Solihull will come into effect next week, and they come as new figures show the city has England's third highest rate of infection behind Bolton and Sunderland

www.mirror.co.uk

That article mentions spreads within homes, in pubs , bars and restaurants and in workplaces - and I'm going to say that the messaging there IS confusing (I mean this is beyond the six person rule - and I DON'T get it)!
Interesting, too, that it comes from a statement, with permission from Hancock, who WAS going to make it himself - but isn't now? Why? To let other people own the fuck ups?

 

[elbows]

Stuff that has been noted by people on this forum in regards hospital data of late is starting to get the occasional mention in the media.

eg:

There are already some signs that the number of people being admitted to hospital is starting to rise.

From some BBC ananlysis on their live updates page that will probably end up in some other article I havent stumbed upon yet ( 15:04 entry of https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-54114292 )

 

[Teaboy]

The majority sometimes the vast majority of transmission happens in the home and always has done with this virus. The 6 person rule seems totally designed to stop house parties and other big gatherings. They are hoping to as much as is possible to contain the rise in cases without shutting down areas of the economy again. This seems pretty straight forward to me. Whether its the right approach or not time will tell.

 

[sheothebudworths]

The Health Secretary has said guidance that residents cannot socialise outside of their households in the city will become law.

It's that.
What DOES that mean?
There are genuinely lots of ways to interpret it/lots of ways people could misunderstand it - and I don't mean - when you're looking for loopholes - just that it's not remotely clear.

It could be as easily read as -

Go the pub with people from your house (which I suspect is the right answer - but it's fair enough to mention that that doesn't make sense, while they do highlight the issues of spread in various other settings, too - and with this potentially being targetted towards younger people anyway - so, houseshares but varied workplaces and all grouping together in pubs etc).

You can only socialise INDOORS.

ALL STAY AT HOME.


Clarity please, Hancock, you silly cunt.

 

[existentialist]

Looking at the dates on the ZOE app, it's when/after Scotland's schools opened but before England's. Don't know when they open in Wales or NI.

Welsh schools operate broadly on the same schedule as English ones - Scotland's have historically been different.

 

[sojourner]

Merseyside now an 'area of concern' - hopefully I'll get to see my daughter again before another bloody local lockdown.

 

[existentialist]

I wondered why I wasn't seeing Nicola Sturgeon's briefings! Fucking hell. Have signed that petition.



Yup. Failed traffic wardens and those cunty CPSO types.

An essential criterion for that job should be an unwillingness to do it.

 

[existentialist]

The differences between the nations is ridiculous. Wales only just making mask wearing on public transport mandatory. The under 12s not counting. What does an outdoor meeting of 30 even mean. Who's that benefit. Groups of thirty who decide to meat down the park? How often is that a thing.
In the garden all coming in to use the loo?


Looks a bit petty political point scoring. Our rules are less strict than yours.

TBH, if there is any petty point scoring going on between nations, Wales' regulations were, for a good long while, a LOT stricter than England's. With the result that the local police were spending a great deal of their time during lockdown turning cars around that had driven to West Wales from England - totally within England's rules, but way outside Wales' no-further-than-5-miles-from home ones.

The masks thing has, I admit, been odd - I couldn't understand why WG didn't mandate them.

But any game-playing around rules seems to have been being played more by Westminster than Cardiff. And that's been borne out in the numbers - Wales, even allowing for its smaller population, has managed to keep infection rates below those in England throughout the situation.