Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[littlebabyjesus]

That company has fucked up somehow someway. Can't believe they are allowed to keep running with so many cases.

The answer may be a bit worse than that. The answer could be that they more or less followed the regulations, but that the regulations, in certain settings, for reasons perhaps not yet well understood, are inadequate. There has to be a reason why these workplaces are continually being implicated - it won't just be because food processing companies are uniquely shit employers.

That's why that director of public health's response is both out of order and woefully inadequate. It is the exact opposite of what it should have been - this is clearly a workplace outbreak, we need to understand why it happened. That doesn't necessarily need to involve throwing out blame, and it may be counterproductive to do so. But it needs to be acknowledged otherwise it will just happen again. How often, if at all, are the workers there tested, for instance? Is it every week? If not, why not, given that we know how quickly a superspreader event can escalate in the right setting, and we know that food processing factories can be the right setting, even if we may not know exactly why that is the case?

One possible strategy in this kind of thing could be to test a set proportion of the workforce every day, then to test everyone if any of those tests comes back positive. Or there could be batch testing to save on costs, again with everyone tested if it comes back positive. Cos even weekly testing, if it's everyone at the same time, may not catch a big spread in time. It could be that testing like this to catch infection before it gets the chance to spread is the single most important measure you can take. Such approaches have worked thus far in the various sporting events taking place around Europe.

 

[elbows]

I just reread that. It is actually quite shocking for her to say that with a straight face. Blame the workers!!!

Its a very slightly more mixed message if I read two local press articles that include comments from her, but still plenty to get angry about. In part I think because this story came out in two different goes today, with the first one lacking any info about how many cases there actually were.

Outbreak of Covid-19 at Northampton food factory confirmed by health authority

The factory makes food such as pre-packed sandwiches and employees hundreds of people

www.northamptonchron.co.uk

Number of Coronavirus cases in outbreak at Northampton factory confirmed by health officials

Around a tenth of the overall workforce has tested positive for the virus

www.northamptonchron.co.uk

I saw similar messages here in Nuneaton when they decided to be mealy-mouthed about what was clearly mostly a story of an outbreak due to hospital infections. There were plenty of appeals to the public then too, even though most of what mattered was dealt with by actually sorting out the hospitals infection control and temporarily closing some wards. Its pretty understandable that public health officials are going to focus their public messages on appeals to the public to behave in certain ways. But this turns into some very ugly messaging when it is combined with their instincts to protect individual institutions, establishments and businesses from criticism and blame. Which is part of the general culture of keeping a lid on things in public that are awkward and embarrassing for institutions etc. They can justify it to themselves because the measures they take to get a grip on infections in those places can be handled privately, without the pesky public attention. Behind closed doors they can employ a degree of frankness that has sadly evaporated when it comes to public discourse because they've been educated that the professional and responsible approach involves empty platitudes and templated weasel words. But it undermines public confidence because we should still have a right to understand failings that happen in these settings, and unvarnished bluntness really does matter if you want people to have any sense of things being handled openly and fairly.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Its a very slightly more mixed message if I read two local press articles that include comments from her, but still plenty to get angry about. In part I think because this story came out in two different goes today, with the first one lacking any info about how many cases there actually were.

Outbreak of Covid-19 at Northampton food factory confirmed by health authority

The factory makes food such as pre-packed sandwiches and employees hundreds of people

www.northamptonchron.co.uk

Number of Coronavirus cases in outbreak at Northampton factory confirmed by health officials

Around a tenth of the overall workforce has tested positive for the virus

www.northamptonchron.co.uk

I saw similar messages here in Nuneaton when they decided to be mealy-mouthed about what was clearly mostly a story of an outbreak due to hospital infections, there were plenty of appeals to the public then too, even though most of what mattered was dealt with by actually sorting out the hospitals infection control and temporarily closing some wards. Its pretty understandable that public health officials are going to focus their public messages on appeals to the public to behave in certain ways. But this turns into some very ugly messaging when it is combined with their instincts to protect individual institutions, establishments and businesses from criticism and blame. Which is part of the general culture of keeping a lid on things in public that are awkward and embarrassing for institutions etc. They can justify it to themselves because the measures they take to get a grip on infections in those places can be handled privately, without the pesky public attention. Behind closed doors they can employ a degree of frankness that has sadly evaporated when it comes to public discourse because they've been educated that the professional and responsible approach involves empty platitudes and templated weasel words. But it undermines public confidence because we should still have a right to understand failings that happen in these settings, and unvarnished bluntness really does matter if you want people to have any sense of things being handled openly and fairly.

Well yes, I would hope that she would be saying something a bit different in private, but as you say, this kind of gaslighting, which is what it is really, does nobody any good, and frankly it makes the officials spouting the bullshit look ridiculous. Why should anyone listen to someone saying such obvious bollocks?

 

[elbows]

The only reason I'm not going further with ranting right now is because I'm trying to take a rant break this week and the picture in Northampton seems to have been bad for a long time, and absent from the news today was much indication of what time period all the testing at that workplace has covered. So I dont want to zoom in too much at the expense of the broader infection picture there. Doesnt make her comments any better though.

I'll be digging other graphs of Northampton data out at this rate, but not right now.

 

[elbows]

The latest entrants on the UK quarantine list:

Coronavirus: France to be added to UK quarantine countries

Many of the 160,000 Britons in France face a scramble to return before 04:00 BST on Saturday.

www.bbc.co.uk

People coming to the UK from France and the Netherlands will be forced to quarantine for 14 days from Saturday.

Transport Secretary Grant Shapps said the measure - which also applies to people travelling from Monaco, Malta, Turks and Caicos, and Aruba, would kick in from 04:00 BST.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Dont need any foreigners coming over with the virus, plenty of good old fashioned British virus to go around.

 

[ChrisD]

France travel advice

FCDO travel advice for France. Includes safety and security, insurance, entry requirements and legal differences.

www.gov.uk

I presume there will be some jostling for places on UK bound ferries tomorrow....

 

[elbows]

Some of the oven-ready easing that they backed out of recently is now set to go ahead:

Coronavirus: Lockdown to ease further in England from Saturday

More beauty treatments, small wedding receptions and live indoor shows can resume this weekend.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[elbows]

I note that they are continuing to attempt to offset the image of relaxations with some tough talk on compliance, fines increasing etc.

Home Secretary Priti Patel said she would not allow progress against the virus to be undermined by "a small minority of senseless individuals".

I agree, so why havent the government resigned, since that is clearly where many of the senseless individuals in question have been found via our cack and disgrace system?

 

[agricola]

Half a million people are on holiday just in France, apparently.

One imagines a competent government would have spoken to Eurostar / Eurotunnel / the ferry companies / BA and the airlines etc and asked them to put on extra services tomorrow. I wonder if our government has done that?

 

[PursuedByBears]

Half a million people are on holiday just in France, apparently.

One imagines a competent government would have spoken to Eurostar / Eurotunnel / the ferry companies / BA and the airlines etc and asked them to put on extra services tomorrow. I wonder if our government has done that?

{Hollow laughter}

 

[8115]

.

 

[xenon]

Well if you’ve gone to France or anywhere in Europe in the last two weeks and not been somewhat prepared for this as a potentiality. You’re a bit of an idiot. unless you booked this months ago in which case you’re unlikely to get home a day earlier if you’ve already booked your return. I do have sympathy for those people.

 

[teuchter]

One imagines a competent government would have spoken to Eurostar / Eurotunnel / the ferry companies / BA and the airlines etc and asked them to put on extra services tomorrow. I wonder if our government has done that?

Wouldn't that kind of defeat the purpose of the quarantine?

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

{Hollow laughter}

{echoes...}

 

[andysays]

Half a million people are on holiday just in France, apparently.

One imagines a competent government would have spoken to Eurostar / Eurotunnel / the ferry companies / BA and the airlines etc and asked them to put on extra services tomorrow. I wonder if our government has done that?

I'm really not sure that Eurostar / Eurotunnel / the ferry companies / BA and the airlines etc are able to significantly increase their services like that with only a day's notice.

But any lingering doubts that we actually have a competent government should have been dispelled by now, surely.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Half a million people are on holiday just in France, apparently.

One imagines a competent government would have spoken to Eurostar / Eurotunnel / the ferry companies / BA and the airlines etc and asked them to put on extra services tomorrow. I wonder if our government has done that?

Any competent government would have told people to avoid travelling abroad as much as possible during a fucking pandemic.

 

[wiskey]

It's not just France though is it, it's anybody who drives through France to get to a port. So my friends in Italy, who chose to drive not fly, also have to quarantine.

 

[LDC]

It's not just France though is it, it's anybody who drives through France to get to a port. So my friends in Italy, who chose to drive not fly, also have to quarantine.

That's still France, they're not being quarantined for having been in Italy, but for having been in France, even if it is briefly. It's logical, and it'd be ridiculous and open to abuse to try and make it more complex.

I'm just surprised people are going abroad currently tbh, and if you do you can't really complain when things like this happen.

 

[magneze]

I would like to thumbs up that more. Is a holiday that important?

 

[agricola]

Wouldn't that kind of defeat the purpose of the quarantine?

Announcing it now but delaying it until 4AM on Saturday has a much greater effect there - all this is going to do is firstly make travelling back today seem like a priority for tens / hundreds of thousands of people, and secondly make everyone (who is in a position to do it) in France that can't get back but who wants to avoid quarantine go to Germany, Italy or especially the Channel Islands and get back from there.

 

[LDC]

Announcing it now but delaying it until 4AM on Saturday has a much greater effect there - all this is going to do is firstly make travelling back today seem like a priority for tens / hundreds of thousands of people, and secondly make everyone (who is in a position to do it) in France that can't get back but who wants to avoid quarantine go to Germany, Italy or especially the Channel Islands and get back from there.

I can see it both ways, some people will need some time to make arrangements to be able to quarantine and a warning is better for them maybe? I very much doubt any significant numbers of people will change travel plans to try and dodge the quarantine by leaving now and coming back via another country, that'd be quite a logistical and organisational feat to be able to do that at such short notice for most people.

I also suspect an announcement on the hour/day it comes into force would result in much outpouring of annoyance by people saying there should have been some warning of it. The reckoning would be this way is the most likely to cause the least disruption and best compliance I'd think.

 

[Smangus]

The Spanish last minute quarantine fiasco should have been enough warning to people about how this could go. 500,000 peeps caught out , nightmare for them .

 

[LDC]

Traveling abroad for a holiday during an pandemic? Be prepared for it to be slightly complicated and potentially a right pain in the arse. What a surprise.

 

[kabbes]

People were pretty much encouraged during late June and early July to book holidays abroad. Having done so, they weren’t then going to not go.

 

[Artaxerxes]

People were pretty much encouraged during late June and early July to book holidays abroad. Having done so, they weren’t then going to not go.

I wonder how Grant Schapps is enjoying quarantine.

 

[Spandex]

Some of the oven-ready easing that they backed out of recently is now set to go ahead:

Coronavirus: Lockdown to ease further in England from Saturday

More beauty treatments, small wedding receptions and live indoor shows can resume this weekend.

www.bbc.co.uk

So two weeks ago we were at "the outer edge of what we can do and therefore choices are going to be made" according to Whitty. There was talk of closing pubs so that schools can reopen. From tomorrow casinos, soft play and indoor theatre, live music and performance venues can reopen.

Has the situation changed significantly in the last fortnight or is it just that choices have been made?

 

[LDC]

People were pretty much encouraged during late June and early July to book holidays abroad. Having done so, they weren’t then going to not go.

Were they? I never felt encouraged to book a holiday abroad.

 

[frogwoman]

My mum is planning a trip to italy with her friend in September. I told her I wasn't going travel or stay overnight anywhere even in the uk for the foreseeable future, I think she thinks she will get around it and she told me she would probably ignore the quarantine on return if there is one. Why would you go? There is covid testing at the airport and on arrival and if even one person on the plane has a positive test your holiday is over.

I love travelling and being on holiday and I've got friends in loads of different countries, I was planning to try and get to sweden next year to visit mates (assuming herd immunity has been achieved there and it's all good ) However being on holiday isn't the most important thing in my life at the moment.

 

[Maltin]

I would like to thumbs up that more. Is a holiday that important?

I think holidays are very important to take a break from work, relax and do something different. I don’t think holidays overseas are sensible right now but I do understand why some have gone and assume that they know the risks.