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Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

There are some places that do antibodies tests, my mum ordered the Abbott one which is supposed to be reliable and it said she'd had it. Supposedly the antibodies decline after a few months though.

Superdrug withdrew that one over doubts over its reliability, though I think it was more around false negatives rather than false positives. Given that at the height of the spread of the thing very few people could get access to a test it wouldn't be surprising if a lot of people have had it.

Me & my g/f both had all the symptoms but not enough to be hospitalised so didn't get a test. My brother-in-law did get hospitalised yet returned two negative tests and he was an otherwise very healthy person so recovered reasonably well but it still feeling it now 6 weeks later. If all these aren't covid its been a bumper year for good old fashioned pneumonia.
 
I'm very rarely ill, but had a dry cough and a week or so of feeling slightly shitty in late February/early March, and on one level I know it was just some bug, but I also had a lingering hope it was covid, enough to go and get an antibody test when they came out.

It's weird isn't it, like we all want to have had it and been OK. Someone's going to do some really interesting research into the psychology of all this one day.
 
I've heard on the TWIV podcast and a few other places that the PCR tests sometimes give false negative results by the time severe symptoms start but when you take samples from the lungs it is there.
 
I had a plague fueled winter. It was a succession of colds from October until March. I blame having a child at nursery. In December we (the adults) did have a few feverish days and odd dizzy and nausea spells which became a cough that only cleared up in February. I don't think we had covid tho. But it was a shitty winter for shitty viruses.


ETA. I lose the chronology but somewhere in all that we had the shits as well. :D
 
I'm very rarely ill, but had a dry cough and a week or so of feeling slightly shitty in late February/early March, and on one level I know it was just some bug, but I also had a lingering hope it was covid, enough to go and get an antibody test when they came out.

It's weird isn't it, like we all want to have had it and been OK. Someone's going to do some really interesting research into the psychology of all this one day.

In my mum's case it was so she could start seeing all her mates again :D
 
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On the other hand at my sisters workplace's head office they did antibodies tests for everyone and a couple of people showed antibodies with no signs of even having been ill:eek: while the majority of people didn't have any.
 
There was a thread in mumsnet a few weeks ago saying that the first covid cases in europe were earlier than first thought. Cue loads of people, presumably from different parts of the country, saying they had something in January december November that they now wonder if it was covid. If that number of people just from one corner of the internet had it it would have been pretty apparent/exponential after xmas hols I would think.

There are so many variants of viruses and reactions to them and often certain symptoms seem predominant different years. I remember one year there were lots of neck lumps. I had one.
 
Thanks, that’s interesting. Do you think this is a virus with symptoms that could be confused with Covid?
No fever, no loss of taste, no other covid symptoms just the cough and out of breath more easily - sort of exercise-induced asthma. Slight colour to when I cough up (putting it as delicately as I can).

When I spoke to the doctor after my infection at end of last year I said I wasn't sure whether I should have taken antibiotics but it had seemed to clear on its own. She said I was clearly right not to have taken antibiotics in that case. Only now I'm not so sure. I'm tempted to contact her again but I'd imagine she's pretty bloody busy.
 
IIRC shop workers definitely have a higher rate of covid infection than average. Shops are intrinsically close environments and have a lot of different people coming in. As a visitor to a shop you are probably not at a huge risk as long as you don't spend much time there and it's adequately ventilated, but you may be a risk to people working there. I started wearing a mask in shops before it was "mandatory" (ahem) because I thought it was a sensible thing to do.

Schools are certainly a big risk and the bullshit that the government is coming up with to say that they aren't is just absurd. Re-opening schools has turned out to be a terrible idea in several countries already.
Worryingly yet understandably a lot of shop workers around here seem to have lost the fear. Probably a combination of familiarity and mask based invincibility.
 

This from the BHF gives quite a clear explanation on the research that's going on into the vascular impact of covid
However as far as I know there is still no definitive proof the endothelium is being infected directly. I did attempt a post about this a while ago.

In his latest updates he has been talking a lot about Ace inhibitors, ARBs, oxidative stress and the role of Endothelial cells. I've done a little reading about it and still getting my head around the mechanism involved but it appears that although ACE inhibitors increase the amount of ACE 2 available it does not seem to be increasing the chance of developing Covid-19. Sars-cov 2 does bind to ACE 2 but there are other factors in play. A lot of deaths are due to cardiovascular rather than respiratory issues and it is through their role in this cardiovascular mechanism that ACE inhibitors are making a difference. The virus binds to ACE 2 reducing the amount available to bond to angiotensin 2 receptors. Angiotensin 2 is a vasoconstrictor and if it is able to bond to its receptor can increase blood pressure. This along with damage to the endothelium can increase the likelihood of thrombosis. Angiotensin 2 also increases oxidative stress through its interaction with enzymes that play a role in producing reactive oxygen species that damage the endothelium and release coagulation factors. This is all affected by preexisting conditions. Ace inhibitors help to prevent this. By reducing the amount of ACE available to convert the less potent vasoconstrictor angiotensin 1 into the more potent angiotensin 2 it keeps blood pressure lower and stops the reactive oxygen species from damaging the endothelium. ARBs block angiotensin 2 receptors and ACE2 is able to convert more angiotensin 2 into Angiotensin 1 7 helping to lower blood pressure. This mechanism of the virus and its associated risk factors appears to be quite important in hospital admissions and there is some evidence that cardiovascular conditions such as hypertension are playing more of a role in admissions than respiratory conditions such as asthma.
 
Thanks, that’s interesting. Do you think this is a virus with symptoms that could be confused with Covid?

Theres a huge symptoms overlap between a wide range of respiratory viruses in humans. This is one of the reasons why a lot of them get lumped together as 'influenza-like illnesses' in surveillance reports, and why proper diagnostic testing is required in order to determine which virus was actually responsible for an illness in any given human.

The UK governments 'if you have a fever and a new, continuous cough' way to guesstimate whether someone had covid-19 is not a reliable guide, they were only able to get any value out of this at all because at that time of year and with a pandemic wave raging, it was easier to assume this was a sign of Covid-19. As soon as you get to a period of the year where other respiratory viruses are especially active in humans, it wont be much use. If they had upgraded the advice sooner to include the 'loss of taste and smell' earlier on then it would have helped more people to make better guesses, but would still not have been reliable or highly appropriate for winter months.
 
Worryingly yet understandably a lot of shop workers around here seem to have lost the fear. Probably a combination of familiarity and mask based invincibility.

I wonder whether loss of fear, like loss of taste, is a symptom to look out for :hmm:
 
I had a very odd bug right at the start of all this - really intense fatigue on and off for over a fortnight, sore throat. No cough, temp a bit higher than usual, but never more than 37.8 and then only that once. If it had just been a blocked nose and sneezing I'd have thought nothing of it, but this was really weird and I have read some accounts of people who definitely did have COVID and it started with those symptoms, and then developed the coughing/chest pain :confused: - and that COVID can distinctly come and go over the course of a few weeks. Also, my sister in law had similar symptoms to me and my brother (her husband) and his oldest daughter definitely had COVID right at the start of lockdown, which suggests that what SIL had was it.

My son had three evenings after that when he coughed a little bit for an hour 3 evenings in a row, husband felt a bit run down as well around that time, so I do wonder if we had it?
 
Another symptom here:

I just looked this up because I’ve had something like this come on over the last couple of days, first in one eye, which has now more or less cleared up, and now in the other. So I guess it could be part of whatever else I’ve got or I’ve just picked up conjunctivitis for some other reason.
 
It's weird isn't it, like we all want to have had it and been OK. Someone's going to do some really interesting research into the psychology of all this one day.

Can augment such pictures with a look back at how humans tend to talk about this stuff at any time, with normal seasonal illnesses etc. If I had the time then I would be checking various 'thers something nasty doing the rounds' threads of the past. But without even checking I would expect that phenomenon include the desire to attribute everyones illness within a period of time as all being down to the same virus thats going around. A simple picture that will only be a good fit for reality on fairly rare occasions, such as when there is a really obvious epidemic of influenza going around, and even then some people are likely to happen to catch something else in the same period. But we are mostly only ever encouraged to think about these things in very simplistic terms, with basic options such as 'its a cold' or 'its the flu' used to simplify a picture that actually involves potentially dozens of viruses. After all 'the common cold' covers numerous viruses including a number of other coronaviruses. And peoples perceptions of which virus is responsible are often based on severity of symptoms, which we know is an unreliable guide, but one which is perfectly understandable people cling to because we base a lot of our assumptions on our experiences, and its symptoms that we experience and use to compare notes with others. But this is a poor fit for the viral reality and I was glad that at least the wide range of symptom severity in Covid-19 sufferes was an opportunity to put some myths about whether something counted as 'proper flu' if you werent totally bedridden to, err, bed.
 
Another symptom here:

I just looked this up because I’ve had something like this come on over the last couple of days, first in one eye, which has now more or less cleared up, and now in the other. So I guess it could be part of whatever else I’ve got or I’ve just picked up conjunctivitis for some other reason.

The difficulties of the guessing game are another indication of why the UK authorities, NHS etc should, as a result of lessons learnt from this pandemic, move to a culture where extremely widespread, routine diagnostics testing for all manner of infections becomes the absolute norm. Because its likely that all the terrible pandemic response failings and deaths we saw as a result of the first pandemic wave and our really shitty testing regime & capacity were, like almost everything else exposed in this pandemic, a sign of the routine failings we suffer from all the bloody time, every winter, etc.

Because in most cases it is not possible to guess with confidence, we need proper testing because laypeople and medical people alike cannot work miracles with guesswork, but thats exactly what is encouraged in certain parts of the traditional system of healthcare here.
 
With regards to customers not wearing masks in shops - this is certainly a source of some anxiety among my older workmates who spend their time on the shopfloor.

The main offenders in my store by a large margin are men aged under 30 in the building trade, and it seems reasonable to suppose they'll have a lower-than-average perception of risk in general, making them better-than-average spreaders.
 
It's weird isn't it, like we all want to have had it and been OK. Someone's going to do some really interesting research into the psychology of all this one day.

It's understandable in some sense, annoying in others. I think it helps distract from gaining a true picture of the pandemic and smacks a little of 'the pandemic revolves around me'.
 
I wonder whether loss of fear, like loss of taste, is a symptom to look out for :hmm:
Those probably aren't good diagnostic criteria for any specific virus :)

I think I burbled on about this elsewhere, but the essential problem here is one of belief. Even if someone catches Covid-19 - even if they end up being treated for it - they are, at the psychological level, still dealing with something they can't see, touch, smell, or sense in any way: so it's all about whether we believe it represents a risk. And the problem with belief is that it's very flexible - there's no "risk-o-meter" sitting along the bottom of our eyeline to tell us how much risk we're at.

So, on that basis, someone is able to believe in the risk enough to put on a facemask, go into work, do their job taking all necessary precautions, etc. But, through every moment that they're doing that, the belief that they are at risk becomes more and more difficult to sustain - "I've been working in my job for 3 weeks, and haven't caught it, so it is less of a threat". Rinse and repeat. Slowly, without that belief being topped up with facts - facts that, likewise, we are able to believe - it becomes weaker, and the steps we take to protect ourselves become less important. Or, as LynnDoyleCooper just pointed out, we add a belief - "I've already had it, so I'm safe"

To some extent, we'll all be doing this - to reference Kahnemann again, it's all about System 1 thinking ("fast" thinking). The counter to it is to invoke our System 2 thinking - and a lot of the discussions in a forum like this, where people like elbows are producing facts, stats, figures, people like LynnDoyleCooper are providing a combination of front-line reports and medical knowledge, are essentially doing the System 2 thing. But there's a couple of problems with that: first of all, lots of people don't really do System 2 thinking: it's often the kind of thing that emerges from even quite a basic scientific training, where, along with finding out what happens when you do some basic chemical experiment, you're also learning that "what I intuit" doesn't necessarily follow in objective reality. So people without that training will find it harder to make judgements based on facts they can't actually see for themseves. And the other thing is that System 2 thinking is hard work - walking into a Tesco where hardly anyone is wearing a mask, the old System 1 kicks in and says "look, it can't be risky, because those people don't think it is, also I don't want to stand out or look stupid", and it can take a conscious effort to go into System 2 and say "butbutbut, the numbers say that people ARE getting infected, people ARE dying" at a time when it feels less immediate or relevant than putting ourselves to the inconvenience of masking up.

I'm not even pontificating here - what I described in the passage above was exactly the thought process I noticed myself going through as I walked towards my local Tesco. OK, I did mask up (I went to another personal System 1 belief of "fuck you, I know better than you, and I'm doing the Right Thing, dammit" :D).

As with any kind of large-scale threat, the human factor - what we believe, and what we do with those beliefs - is a massively significant factor, and one that I think is often discounted or ignored.
 
It's understandable in some sense, annoying in others. I think it helps distract from gaining a true picture of the pandemic and smacks a little of 'the pandemic revolves around me'.

Its inevitable, since we perceive the world through our own personal experiences. Another reason why we need layers of science and proper testing to sift our false perceptions from our reality picture.

The same thing happens with the weather and weather forecasts. If you forecast a severe thunderstorm then people will moan about the prediction if they dont witness the storm out of their window, even if the town next door was hit with hailstones the size of golfballs.
 
With regards to customers not wearing masks in shops - this is certainly a source of some anxiety among my older workmates who spend their time on the shopfloor.

The main offenders in my store by a large margin are men aged under 30 in the building trade, and it seems reasonable to suppose they'll have a lower-than-average perception of risk in general, making them better-than-average spreaders.

Having been on a few building site recently I know that there is little to no attempt at any sort of measures. Its not surprising to here they are then carrying as normal when they are off site. Most construction workers (bigger sites anyway) will be fully branded with their company details, I'd report them to their company and have done in the past for different things (wolf whistling etc). There is no need to name names so so individual gets kicked off site its just that it tends to work as head office don't like their name being dragged through the mud.
 
Its inevitable, since we perceive the world through our own personal experiences. Another reason why we need layers of science and proper testing to sift our false perceptions from our reality picture.

The same thing happens with the weather and weather forecasts. If you forecast a severe thunderstorm then people will moan about the prediction if they dont witness the storm out of their window, even if the town next door was hit with hailstones the size of golfballs.
Oh look, elbows just took two paragraphs to say what it took me 4 quite big ones to say :D
 
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