Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[Cloo]

Found this article quite interesting, tallies with what I've been thinking, given I haven't washed any shopping/packages coming into the home, nor have most people during lockdown, and you'd expect more cases during the lockdown period if it were easily transmitted by touch.

Hygiene Theater Is a Huge Waste of Time

People are power scrubbing their way to a false sense of security.

www.theatlantic.com

If this is the case then perhaps, for example, children's outdoor play areas needn't be shut down, which could be a godsend to parents of small kids, even over winter, as it would give them something to do locally outside the house as long as it's not tipping down. But I expect that governments will err on the side of caution and shut them down again when infections rise again.

 

[Fruitloop]

Has this been posted already? Looks like pretty scary rates of cardiovascular involvement in randomly selected people recovered from Covid-19:

Outcomes of Cardiovascular Magnetic Resonance Imaging in Patients Recently Recovered From COVID-19

This cohort study evaluates the presence of myocardial injury in unselected patients recently recovered from coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19).

jamanetwork.com

 

[gosub]

'Gipsy Lives Matter': Traveller's call for action after 'hostility' over Shropshire coronavirus outbreak

A Shropshire traveller has insisted "gipsy lives matter" after alleged hostility towards the community amid a coronavirus outbreak and government calls to give police more powers.

www.shropshirestar.com

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Found this article quite interesting, tallies with what I've been thinking, given I haven't washed any shopping/packages coming into the home, nor have most people during lockdown, and you'd expect more cases during the lockdown period if it were easily transmitted by touch.

Hygiene Theater Is a Huge Waste of Time

People are power scrubbing their way to a false sense of security.

www.theatlantic.com

If this is the case then perhaps, for example, children's outdoor play areas needn't be shut down, which could be a godsend to parents of small kids, even over winter, as it would give them something to do locally outside the house as long as it's not tipping down. But I expect that governments will err on the side of caution and shut them down again when infections rise again.

I remember that being talked about some time ago, that transmission from surfaces really wasn't a big deal if a deal at all. It started off as one of the assumptions that was taken from flu very early on, but if other distancing measures are ongoing it seems it basically doesn't make a significant difference.

I did wash down shopping for a while until I was persuaded not to by a pretty paranoid friend of mine saying even she didn't bother. I don't do it now - I wash my hands when coming in from outside but that's pretty simple hygiene anyway. The fact that supermarkets don't disinfect baskets any more doesn't worry me.

 

[zahir]

Calderdale to set up its own contact tracing.

English councils with highest Covid rates launch own test-and-trace systems

Local authorities plug holes in government’s system, with some reaching 98-100% of people

www.theguardian.com

Calderdale council in West Yorkshire, which has the sixth highest infection rate in England, told the Guardian it was hoping to launch its own team next week, while neighbouring Kirklees council said it was considering doing the same.

In total, local authorities in eight of the 10 worst-hit areas in England have launched or are planning to launch supplementary versions of the government’s flagship test-and-trace system amid concerns that it is failing to reach the most vulnerable residents.

Tim Swift, leader of Calderdale council, said there was “two or three gaps” in the national system that it would plug with its own model, which it hopes to begin next Wednesday.

He said the national call centre-based approach was fine for some areas, but was failing to understand “something as basic as getting names right” in communities where full names do not always “fit neatly into a first-name-surname function”.

“We understand that and find it easier to handle,” he said. “You don’t want to just know someone is a private hire driver, but also where they work. And also you want to be able to follow up when people do not give full information and sometimes the only way to do that is to knock on a door.”

Ben Leaman, consultant in public health at Calderdale, said the council would use native speakers of Urdu, Czech and Slovak to knock on the doors of people the national system had been unable to reach. All positive cases would get a text message from the council with a local number to call – a recognition of the fact many people were unwilling to call an 0300 number, often believing it to be a hoax. If they don’t reply within 24 hours they get a knock on the door.

 

[Cloo]

All in all it seems to be so much about enclosed spaces and length of time in close proximity to the same people than touching or brief encounters with others that it surely makes more sense to be wearing masks in schools and when visiting friends/family in their homes than in shops. I mean, the guys in our local cornershop must come into contact with 100s of people a week, but neither of them has appears to have been off sick during this whole thing, and supermarkets don't seem to have been the epicentre of any outbreaks, nor to have experienced mass staff absences, despite umasked people walking around them for months during this.

 

[zahir]

I think I got it from a trip to the supermarket. It’s the only enclosed space with other people about that I visited, apart from a couple of smalll shops that allowed one customer at a time. My guess is that supermarkets will account for a fair proportion of otherwise unexplained cases.

 

[quimcunx]

Tbf none of the maybe 3 people I know who work in supermarkets seem to have caught it or mentioned anyone else they work with catching it

 

[Cloo]

I think I got it from a trip to the supermarket. It’s the only enclosed space with other people about that I visited, apart from a couple of smalll shops that allowed one customer at a time. My guess is that supermarkets will account for a fair proportion of otherwise unexplained cases.

Sounds like it - but you'd kind of expect there to be more cases from them given it was the only place people were going.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

All in all it seems to be so much about enclosed spaces and length of time in close proximity to the same people than touching or brief encounters with others that it surely makes more sense to be wearing masks in schools and when visiting friends/family in their homes than in shops. I mean, the guys in our local cornershop must come into contact with 100s of people a week, but neither of them has appears to have been off sick during this whole thing, and supermarkets don't seem to have been the epicentre of any outbreaks, nor to have experienced mass staff absences, despite umasked people walking around them for months during this.

IIRC shop workers definitely have a higher rate of covid infection than average. Shops are intrinsically close environments and have a lot of different people coming in. As a visitor to a shop you are probably not at a huge risk as long as you don't spend much time there and it's adequately ventilated, but you may be a risk to people working there. I started wearing a mask in shops before it was "mandatory" (ahem) because I thought it was a sensible thing to do.

Schools are certainly a big risk and the bullshit that the government is coming up with to say that they aren't is just absurd. Re-opening schools has turned out to be a terrible idea in several countries already.

 

[frogwoman]

Yeah quite a few shop workers and bus drivers etc have died.

 

[zahir]

Sounds like it - but you'd kind of expect there to be more cases from them given it was the only place people were going.

That’s a fair point but it does raise the question of how you’d know if there was an outbreak in your local supermarket. Here’s a report from Sheffield in June where Asda declined to confirm or deny that they had an outbreak.

Asda responds to claims of a coronavirus outbreak at a Yorkshire store

The supermarket chain has released a statement

www.examinerlive.co.uk

A supermarket chain has responded to claims that there has been a coronavirus outbreak at a store in South Yorkshire.

Fears have seemingly been raised on social media of an outbreak of COVID-19 at the Asda store in Chapeltown, Sheffield.

One person tweeted the grocery giant after hearing the speculation and Asda has now responded by insisting that "robust control measures" are in place should an outbreak occur.

A spokesman for Asda said: "We would never comment on individual colleague’s circumstances, however we are staying close to, and following, the government advice and guidance and should one of our colleagues feel any symptoms of coronavirus, we are asking them to self-isolate and are supporting them in doing so by providing full pay.

"Our customers can rest assured that we have robust control measures and monitoring in to protect our colleagues and customers and keep them safe at our Chapeltown store.”

 

[Orang Utan]

We had to ask a sweaty cougher to leave my work today ffs.

 

[Doodler]

.

 

[Cribynkle]

Has this been posted already? Looks like pretty scary rates of cardiovascular involvement in randomly selected people recovered from Covid-19:

Outcomes of Cardiovascular Magnetic Resonance Imaging in Patients Recently Recovered From COVID-19

This cohort study evaluates the presence of myocardial injury in unselected patients recently recovered from coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19).

jamanetwork.com

Is coronavirus a disease of the blood vessels?

Dr Phoebe Kitscha explores some of the biology behind the effects of Covid-19 on the circulatory system, and the research into ways to prevent and treat these effects.

www.bhf.org.uk

This from the BHF gives quite a clear explanation on the research that's going on into the vascular impact of covid

 

[existentialist]

Is coronavirus a disease of the blood vessels?

Dr Phoebe Kitscha explores some of the biology behind the effects of Covid-19 on the circulatory system, and the research into ways to prevent and treat these effects.

www.bhf.org.uk

This from the BHF gives quite a clear explanation on the research that's going on into the vascular impact of covid

Covid-19 does seem to be a particularly effective "culling" disease. Sure, most serious infections will tend to hit the unfit and the unwell harder than the average population, but this one almost seems tailor-made not just to attack the respiratory system, as 'flu does, but to do permanent damage to the lungs, heart, and even brain, even in people who don't have the typical chronic issues - obesity, diabetes, cardiovascular disease, etc...

 

[LDC]

I think I got it from a trip to the supermarket. It’s the only enclosed space with other people about that I visited, apart from a couple of smalll shops that allowed one customer at a time. My guess is that supermarkets will account for a fair proportion of otherwise unexplained cases.

Lots of speculation there, especially given you had a negative test iirc. If you were at all careful in the supermarket I suspect that wasn't where you caught it to continue with the speculation.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

Thankfully the new lockdown round here has put a stop to the parties that sprung up following the lifting of the initial one. A bit of peace and quiet at night now thankfully. Makes sense that it's the young 'uns driving infection rates.

 

[zahir]

Lots of speculation there, especially given you had a negative test iirc. If you were at all careful in the supermarket I suspect that wasn't where you caught it to continue with the speculation.

If I don’t have Covid what else would you suggest that I might have? It’s a genuine question as I’m not ruling out that it could be something else.

Where would you suggest I‘m likely to have caught it other than the supermarket, given that the only alternatives for that week or two would be either one of a couple of small shops or somewhere outdoors?

 

[teuchter]

I was just looking at the Transport for Wales website which seems still to be telling people that they should use public transport for essential journeys only. So if you are in Wales you're only allowed a day out if you own a car. Why's Wales out of whack with the rest of the UK on this?

 

[Steel Icarus]

I was just looking at the Transport for Wales website which seems still to be telling people that they should use public transport for essential journeys only. So if you are in Wales you're only allowed a day out if you own a car. Why's Wales out of whack with the rest of the UK on this?

Government presumably not stuffed with venal psychos

 

[LDC]

If I don’t have Covid what else would you suggest that I might have? It’s a genuine question as I’m not ruling out that it could be something else.

Where would you suggest I‘m likely to have caught it other than the supermarket, given that the only alternatives for that week or two would be either one of a couple of small shops or somewhere outdoors?

When you described it earlier it sounded like it could have been any number of viral things tbh, or even something else like a gastro bug iirc. I have no idea where you caught whatever it was you had though, depends on so many variables, like was it early on, or during lockdown etc.

It is hard to catch though if you were WFH, were being careful outside the house, and obeyed lockdown rules more generally though. Everyone I know that has had it (confirmed by test or having very clear symptoms and route of infection) were HCPs or caught it early before lockdown, or from a workplace with other confirmed cases.

I'm just skeptical as so many people I know have insisted they had it, even with no or negative tests, and even though they were being really careful and had no known contact with anyone, and sometimes with symptoms that don't sound like covid at all. And funnily enough nobody this year got ill with anything other than mild/moderate covid, no normal bugs at all! I guess there's a load of complicated things going on with wishful thinking, lack of medical understanding, fear, media influence, etc.

 

[two sheds]

I'm just skeptical as so many people I know have insisted they had it, even with no or negative tests, and even though they were being really careful and had no known contact with anyone, and sometimes symptoms that don't sound like covid at all. And funnily enough nobody this year got ill with anything other than mild/moderate covid, no normal bugs at all! I guess there's a load of complicated things going on with wishful thinking, lack of medical understanding, fear, media influence, etc.

I've had cough for last couple of weeks at least - no other cv symptoms so I'm pretty sure it's another virus/bacterial infection. I've no idea where I caught that though since I've been self isolating, none of my neighbours seems to have/have had it. Only thing apart from spontaneous infection (shouldn't rule miasma out, they had a lot of things right in the Middle Ages) I can think of would be if it's an infection I had at the beginning of the year that I never actually got rid of.

 

[Teaboy]

Schools are certainly a big risk and the bullshit that the government is coming up with to say that they aren't is just absurd. Re-opening schools has turned out to be a terrible idea in several countries already.

Funny you should mention this as today we have this report: Schools 'should be first to open, last to close'

Its hard to argue with a lot of what she is saying and of course you would expect a children's commissioner to say such things. Clearly a child's education and well being is more important than a night down the pub.

The only issues I have is her downplaying of the role children may play in spreading the virus. Unless she has access to studies I've not seen that seems like a definite statement which there is not enough decent evidence to back up. With the limitations of testing available very low risk groups such as children are not being tested though of the few bits I've seen it looks like infection is widespread amongst children in school and its hard to believe that transmission isn't commonplace. There is of course the role that keeping children at home plays in keeping adults at home as well.

They obviously need to find a way to get children back to school ASAP but not at the expense of widespread transmission, this to me is more important that comparisons between pubs and schools. Not that I'd give a shit if they did close the pubs for a couple of months at the start of term.

 

[zahir]

When you described it earlier it sounded like it could have been any number of viral things tbh, or even something else like a gastro bug iirc. I have no idea where you caught whatever it was you had though, depends on so many variables, like was it early on, or during lockdown etc.

It is hard to catch though if you were WFH, were being careful outside the house, and obeyed lockdown rules more generally though. Everyone I know that has had it (confirmed by test or having very clear symptoms and route of infection) were HCPs or caught it early before lockdown, or from a workplace with other confirmed cases.

I'm just skeptical as so many people I know have insisted they had it, even with no or negative tests, and even though they were being really careful and had no known contact with anyone, and sometimes symptoms that don't sound like covid at all. And funnily enough nobody this year got ill with anything other than mild/moderate covid, no normal bugs at all! I guess there's a load of complicated things going on with wishful thinking, lack of medical understanding, fear, media influence, etc.

Are you seeing anything else going around at the moment that would cause the breathing difficulties and would still be lingering on seven weeks later?

 

[two sheds]

Are you seeing anything else going around at the moment that would cause the breathing difficulties and would still be lingering on seven weeks later?

There's what I've got . A few of us caught something well before Christmas and apparently one doctor called it the "hundred day cough" because it kept recurring.

 

[frogwoman]

There are some places that do antibodies tests, my mum ordered the Abbott one which is supposed to be reliable and it said she'd had it. Supposedly the antibodies decline after a few months though.

 

[Steel Icarus]

I had a cough for the first few weeks of lockdown, in fact I was off ill when the college closed a few days before the official close of everything. I've had the odd sore throat and sniffle during isolating but probably hayfever.

 

[frogwoman]

There's what I've got . A few of us caught something well before Christmas and apparently one doctor called it the "hundred day cough" because it kept recurring.

I caught something really nasty around Christmas and was sick for about a month. I wonder about that tbh especially since I had what I'm assuming was almost certainly covid in march (my mum had been in contact with someone who had a positive test although we might not have caught it from her, and there's the antibodies result) but compared to what other people have described it was nasty but mild.

 

[zahir]

There's what I've got . A few of us caught something well before Christmas and apparently one doctor called it the "hundred day cough" because it kept recurring.

Thanks, that’s interesting. Do you think this is a virus with symptoms that could be confused with Covid?