existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Who is? The rest of Urban who don't agree with you?
Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion
- Thread starter Sasaferrato
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existentialist
Tired and unemotional
I usually leave him be - I find the victim posturing rather annoying - but in this case, he's so far out of order it's impossible to ignore.
by saying 'you shouldn't abuse random strangers in the supermarket'?
Those who call masks muzzels, talk about plandemic, call everyone else sheep, may be not so enamoured to think there non mask wearing may be a sign of them have a disability. Rather than the bold, individualist freedom lovers they see themselves as.
Anyway having a pop at strangers for not wearing a mask will probably only do one of.
1. Upset someone with a genuine reason for not wearing one.
2. Give one of these plandemic wankers the attention they crave and have a bit of a row.
3. Vent some frustration but make yourself look a bit of an arsehole, cos 1.
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
so in what way are people not cunts when they're happy to put the health of others at risk ?
sheothebudworths
Up the bum - no babies!!!
My daughter's school and the school I work in are right next to each other, so there are 3000 kids, daily, all trying to get to the same place.
There are also no schools here which are very central so it's more normal that the kids will be using public transport to get there, than not (and that frequently means two buses each way - generally, into town and then back out again).
The buses are rammed to the point that you have often have to wait while several drive straight past before you have a hope of getting on one, which also impacts on how easily you're able to realistically judge what time you will actually arrive.
Apparently the schools/la have been organising with the bus company around this - to have more buses added to the routes - and the schools are also doing staggered arrival times but those are only 10-15 minute arrival/departure slots.
Breaks will also be staggered and masks to be worn in corridors.
The year group 'bubble' stuff is insane though - and that teachers will be moving between those bubbles anyway.
My daughter is in Year 10 and has already seen that there's a large number of kids in her year who are going to parties etc
I can't see any way that this is going to go well but we're still hurtling towards it with no plan in place, outside what the schools have been left desperately scrabbling around to try and put in place themselves.
There are also no schools here which are very central so it's more normal that the kids will be using public transport to get there, than not (and that frequently means two buses each way - generally, into town and then back out again).
The buses are rammed to the point that you have often have to wait while several drive straight past before you have a hope of getting on one, which also impacts on how easily you're able to realistically judge what time you will actually arrive.
Apparently the schools/la have been organising with the bus company around this - to have more buses added to the routes - and the schools are also doing staggered arrival times but those are only 10-15 minute arrival/departure slots.
Breaks will also be staggered and masks to be worn in corridors.
The year group 'bubble' stuff is insane though - and that teachers will be moving between those bubbles anyway.
My daughter is in Year 10 and has already seen that there's a large number of kids in her year who are going to parties etc
I can't see any way that this is going to go well but we're still hurtling towards it with no plan in place, outside what the schools have been left desperately scrabbling around to try and put in place themselves.
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Well the ones that are doing that, sure. But the point is, you've no way of knowing for certain.
Although TBH I don't really care for all this handringing. I'm hungover and can't really get to bothered that you've been a bit mean to someone in Tescos...
Meh.
fwiw I'm sure the people you shouted at in the supermarket are bellends rather than genuinely unable to wear masks, but why take the risk?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
You don't know the reason they're not wearing a mask. If anything you are being selfish yourself when having a go at non-mask-wearers because you're putting the chance that you may be 'shaming' a non-valid non-wearer as more important than the risk you're going to be adding to the misery of someone with a valid reason.
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
Aldi - a local store I feel a fair bit of loyalty to.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Hmm. You'd think that if you were in a local store you feel a fair bit of loyalty to that you wouldn't be going around abusing their other customers. Meh shrug
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sheothebudworths
Up the bum - no babies!!!
Oh, there is THIS from today, though. Yep, a whole new lots of swab tests bought up, with no data provided, for use in the NHS and care homes and possibly schools. Reading more about the companies themselves - predictably batshit - I assume more mates of Cummings, rather than anything that'll actually work.
Still, it sounds like a plan and that's what matters, eh!
(Main article should be clickable within the body of the update)
Minister suggests 90-minute tests could be used in schools
More on the new 90-minute test, which the Guardian reported here.
Business and industry minister Nadhim Zahawi has said the tests may be used in schools.
Asked if the tests could be part of the plan to get children back to school, he told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme:
Still, it sounds like a plan and that's what matters, eh!
(Main article should be clickable within the body of the update)
Minister suggests 90-minute tests could be used in schools
More on the new 90-minute test, which the Guardian reported here.
Business and industry minister Nadhim Zahawi has said the tests may be used in schools.
Asked if the tests could be part of the plan to get children back to school, he told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme:
Pressed on whether it is part of the plan for schools, he said:
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
Yes, if they have a good reason for it
elbows
Well-Known Member
Oh, there is THIS from today, though. Yep, a whole new lots of swab tests bought up, with no data provided, for use in the NHS and care homes and possibly schools. Reading more about the companies themselves - predictably batshit - I assume more mates of Cummings, rather than anything that'll actually work.
Still, it sounds like a plan and that's what matters, eh!
The lack of data is a concern. The detection of influenza bit is really useful and important for winter though, but thats assuming its all reliable.
The BBC version of the story pointed out that there has been a failure to meet a very important goal:
Coronavirus: New 90-minute tests for Covid-19 and flu 'hugely beneficial'
The rapid tests for hospitals and care homes will distinguish between Covid-19 and seasonal illness.
www.bbc.co.uk
elbows
Well-Known Member
Thats your opinion. I dont consider this to be a proven fact.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
I think it's been a case of "We ARE going to open the schools in September...so now let's see what we can do to make it at least look as if we're trying to manage infection". And, I fear, a nice line of ready excuses for if (or when) infection rates spike as a result...My daughter's school and the school I work in are right next to each other, so there are 3000 kids, daily, all trying to get to the same place.
There are also no schools here which are very central so it's more normal that the kids will be using public transport to get there, than not (and that frequently means two buses each way - generally, into town and then back out again).
The buses are rammed to the point that you have often have to wait while several drive straight past before you have a hope of getting on one, which also impacts on how easily you're able to realistically judge what time you will actually arrive.
Apparently the schools/la have been organising with the bus company around this - to have more buses added to the routes - and the schools are also doing staggered arrival times but those are only 10-15 minute arrival/departure slots.
Breaks will also be staggered and masks to be worn in corridors.
The year group 'bubble' stuff is insane though - and that teachers will be moving between those bubbles anyway.
My daughter is in Year 10 and has already seen that there's a large number of kids in her year who are going to parties etc
I can't see any way that this is going to go well but we're still hurtling towards it with no plan in place, outside what the schools have been left desperately scrabbling around to try and put in place themselves.
I keep thinking I am being too cynical, then stuff happens to suggest that fact is worse than the most cynical stuff I can come up with...
But I think I want to pre-empt any second-spike panic buying, so quietly buying up a few more, plus dried pulses and tinned goods, seems like a fairly smart move: my stash of tinned tomatoes is nearly depleted, although I still have about half of my red lentil and kidney bean stockpile intact
I've just been out for a bit of exercise and to get a few bits of shopping, and found myself doing just that. Nothing major, but an extra bag of rice, a few additional tins, another four-pack of bog roll, and so on, just to top the cupboards up a little...
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
If 95% of people are wearing them, 5% not, then even with the most optimistic measure of masks-in-shops effectiveness (and significant effectiveness is very far from a proven fact), that 5% non-compliance is causing only a very, very small difference.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Low-key panic buying?
elbows
Well-Known Member
Thats only true for the first half of March.
I dont have predictions about winter death rate, but there are very few winter scenarios that I can currently consider to be very unlikely. If they turn out to have a pretty good grip on hospital infections and care home staff and residents are properly protected then it should indeed be difficult to hit the levels of death we saw at the peak of the first wave. But it is hard to judge whether they will be able to maintain a grip on those things during the peak of winter illness season. I dont think there is any way to know without understanding the scale of the challenge, and I dont think we will truly understand the potential winter scale until we are well into that period.
I dont think there is a reason to conclude at this stage that we are most certainly doomed this winter, but nor are there reasons to assume we will manage to dodge the worst of it.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
I think that the other side of the argument is equally important - ripping into someone not wearing a mask is not likely to make them any more likely to do so. And also, apart from the point that you (and I) made about "shaming" non-mask wearers, there is the fact that it's probably likely to be exactly what people making a point of not wearing one would like: a proper barney about it.
Either way, the only thing it can possibly achieve is to make the mask shamer feel better about themselves. There are already too many stories floating around in the press about people who have been very rudely and distressingly challenged by members of the public: it's a nasty aspect of human nature that there is a certain sort of person who just can't resist the opportunity to busybody around in someone else's life, and if ANYTHING needs stamping out, it's that.
Low-key panic buying?
Not panic at all, really. I'm one of those people who hates running out of things and usually has a small stockpile of non-perishable goods in, so it's just a matter of topping that up a bit.
elbows
Well-Known Member
95% compliance would indeed be a great result. I expect the percentages they hope for in order to ensure effectiveness of measures is not a million miles away for what they aim for with vaccination campaigns, where it is true that a the aim is for a large majority, and a certain percentage of non-compliance doesnt spoil the overall effect.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
There is a danger here of fixating on issues that are at best marginal. Latest evidence is pointing to a small number of people being 'superspreaders', with a majority of those infected, possibly a very large majority, not infecting anyone. This is the kind of thing that needs addressing, not the odd non-mask-wearer in shops.
eg here
Estimating the overdispersion in... | Wellcome Open Research
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
No, I was teasing - the thing is with the kind of "panic buying" you're doing is that it doesn't create the empty shelves and contagious panic buying that is what causes the problems.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I know different areas are reacting differently, but around me, I'd put it as at least 95% compliance in shops/the tube. The non-wearers certainly stick out.
elbows
Well-Known Member
And if one of the superspreaders is one of the people not wearing a mask?
Unless you can somehow identify superspreaders specifically in advance, everything attached to that phenomenon and trying to prevent it surely becomes a story of having to take tough actions to reduce spread potential between all people? A story I'm sure you are keen to resist as I expect the current nerves about renewed spread are not to your liking.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Not trying to have a go at you specifically with that final remark by the way. Its just you are one of the few people here with a particular 'dont overreact' stance on the pandemic who is prepared to actually convey the stance you have on this stuff, and I am really quite interested in what you think about the changing mood in recent weeks.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
But where should that tough action come from? I got drawn into this discussion because I find this notion that people can feel entitled to often quite aggressively police the behaviour of others quite repulsive - it takes us down some very dark roads indeed. If mask wearing is - as would seem to be the case - a significant part of an infection control strategy, to the point that wearing a mask is being legislated for, then the idea that enforcement is then left to those who like to indulge in a nice bit of busybodying is not a good move - it's almost a worst of both worlds situation.
There were two stories in the press in the last week - one about a young woman who'd been harangued on a train for not wearing a mask (or her companion - she was deaf, and needed to lipread), and another more general story about people with anxiety disorders who'd been had a go at. That sort of shit has GOT to stop...and I found it rather awful that a poster here was prepared to boast about having done exactly that. Whoever's job it is to do the enforcement bit, it's not ours, no matter how strongly we may feel about it.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Yes, thats why I havent joined in with that side of things, but nor did I join in with the condemnation of gentlegreen because frankly I cant be arsed with them. The phenomenon has come up before as well, before the mask phase, when people were looking out of their windows or walking down the street and reaching snap judgements on the behaviours of others.
A degree of societal self-policing and peer value pressures were actually relied upon and desired by the authorities in order to increase compliance with a range of measures, but there is certainly a limit to where that stuff is productive and where it goes off into very dangerous territory. Its not a phenomenon we are likely to live without though, its normal stuff at the best of times, but we should be alert to it and ready to try to stop it going too far.
edit - sorry I did my usual trick of adding a bit to this post after I had posted it, and then feeling bad that the original version had already been liked while I was making my changes.
A degree of societal self-policing and peer value pressures were actually relied upon and desired by the authorities in order to increase compliance with a range of measures, but there is certainly a limit to where that stuff is productive and where it goes off into very dangerous territory. Its not a phenomenon we are likely to live without though, its normal stuff at the best of times, but we should be alert to it and ready to try to stop it going too far.
edit - sorry I did my usual trick of adding a bit to this post after I had posted it, and then feeling bad that the original version had already been liked while I was making my changes.
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