Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[cupid_stunt]

Social distancing in action.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Not for anyone; a positive would be no avoidable deaths.

tbf I would have guessed that healthcare workers were at above average risk. If I were a healthcare worker, finding out that I was just average risk could be quite cheery news.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

And ftr I don’t doubt that the right-wing position on the economy-mortality sliding scale tilts towards the ‘herd-immunity and back at work’ end. I’m just not convinced the far left ‘absolutely everyone stay at home until there’s no covid or a vaccine’ stance is any more sensible.

I agree. The ‘stay at home’ line isn’t where most people are at. People are worried that if they can’t get back to their job soon that it won’t exist anymore.

But, and leaving aside the question about the actual economy they’ll be going back to, the handling of it has been abysmal.

How hard would It have been to announce a limited return to work for 1st June, and to have published a plan providing updated advice from HSE, DHSC, Department for Transport and to involved devolved areas and the metro mayors in drawing this up?

I suspect the botched nature of the announcement reflects the spilts in the Cabinet and this explains the incoherence.

 

[magneze]

Hadn't seen that, and it wasn't announced, that seems weird as it's a big change.

WTF, ok I take back my previous comment. The advice is now BOTH unclear AND impractical. FFS

 

[killer b]

I suspect the botched nature of the announcement reflects the spilts in the Cabinet and this explains the incoherence.

The news yesterday was that the cabinet wasn't even consulted - the address was recorded, stuff sent to the printers etc ahead of the meeting to apparently decide the policy.

 

[Cid]

Metro also talking about busy transport:

(and yeah, that image is tagged as this morning)

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The news yesterday was that the cabinet wasn't even consulted - the address was recorded, stuff sent to the printers etc ahead of the meeting to apparently decide the policy.

And Boris did his own powerpoint.

 

[clicker]

And Boris did his own powerpoint.

I think he delegated that to one of his kids.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

The news yesterday was that the cabinet wasn't even consulted - the address was recorded, stuff sent to the printers etc ahead of the meeting to apparently decide the policy.

Yes, I saw that. It’s also clear that the media stories last week heralding the end of lockdown were briefed by the hawks in Cabinet who wanted to go much further than Johnson actually went yesterday.

The Tories will be getting heavy lobbying from capital who will be demanding a return to work to stave off defaults and mounting debt levels. Also, HMT could not be more clear that they want to choke off state support to business and individuals.

An attempt to restart the old economy is clearly being teed up, and the bifurcation between the advocates of that and the more far sighted representatives of capital will both intensify and become more visible

 

[The39thStep]

Ideal time for Trade Unions and Labour to be putting adverts in newspapers, social media etc on the lines of protect people first, join a trade union offering discounted rates, real drive on heath and safety etc. , offering a 24 hour hot line and text for advice/reassurance for those returning to work.

 

[clicker]

Ideal time for Trade Unions and Labour to be putting adverts in newspapers, social media etc on the lines of protect people first, join a trade union offering discounted rates, real drive on heath and safety etc. , offering a 24 hour hot line and text for advice/reassurance for those returning to work.

Totally this.

 

[killer b]

Ideal time for Trade Unions and Labour to be putting adverts in newspapers, social media etc on the lines of protect people first, join a trade union offering discounted rates, real drive on heath and safety etc. , offering a 24 hour hot line and text for advice/reassurance for those returning to work.

about this.

 

[andysays]

Social distancing in action.

But Boris said it would be safe

 

[cyril_smear]

Metro also talking about busy transport:

(and yeah, that image is tagged as this morning)

thats from today?

 

[Cid]

thats from today?

It's reported as from today, and the image is tagged as from today, yeah.

 

[andysays]

thats from today?

So it says. I'd be interested in seeing photo from same time last week as a comparison, as I suspect public transport has been getting gradually busier over past couple of weeks.

And the idea that they can enforce social distancing measures on the Underground is clearly nonsense

 

[SpookyFrank]

about this.

As much use as a fart in hurricance.

 

[belboid]

Ideal time for Trade Unions and Labour to be putting adverts in newspapers, social media etc on the lines of protect people first, join a trade union offering discounted rates, real drive on heath and safety etc. , offering a 24 hour hot line and text for advice/reassurance for those returning to work.

McCluskey has at least started saying that people should check with their H&S rep about whether it is safe to return, and invoking S44 (ERA) 1996 as the right to refuse unsafe work.

 

[planetgeli]

That’s interesting with respect to the PPE debate:

• Healthcare workers, including those with jobs such as doctors and nurses, were not found to have higher rates of death involving COVID-19 when compared with the rate among those whose death involved COVID-19 of the same age and sex in the general population.

Maybe hospital PPE such as it is now really is sufficient, and the excess deaths among care workers in the community needs to be urgently addressed by giving them the same protection.

It’s also an argument for the safe use of public transport if adequate protection was available maybe?

tbf I would have guessed that healthcare workers were at above average risk. If I were a healthcare worker, finding out that I was just average risk could be quite cheery news.

Yeah, well it comes with a caveat that is being ignored here beyond the headline summary.

Notably,

Some healthcare workers may have reduced exposure to COVID-19 during lockdown, for instance, because of people not having dental or optician appointments. It is also possible that some deaths among healthcare workers will be investigated by coroners, delaying the registration of these deaths. As more deaths are registered, it will be important to repeat these analyses to see if there are any changes in the rates of death involving COVID-19 among healthcare workers.

So I wouldn't go taking too many conclusions from a sample that analyses less than 10% of the recorded statistics and perhaps less than 5% of the actual deaths quite yet.

 

[mauvais]

Yeah, we did this before. Without understanding the distribution of healthcare workers and therefore the distribution of potential exposure, generalised stats on them is really not useful.

 

[cyril_smear]

So it says. I'd be interested in seeing photo from same time last week as a comparison, as I suspect public transport has been getting gradually busier over past couple of weeks.

And the idea that they can enforce social distancing measures on the Underground is clearly nonsense

For fuck sake. It's not gonna work is it?

 

[andysays]

For fuck sake. It's not gonna work is it?

You seem surprised

 

[editor]

Metro also talking about busy transport:

(and yeah, that image is tagged as this morning)

There is no fucking way I would get on that tube) - although for many workers they have no choice. It's fucking criminal.

 

[cyril_smear]

You seem surprised

I don't know what to think frankly.

 

[clicker]

Boris lacked vision before his bubble became blood stained. Now he's just spittle in the wind.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

The New ONS report (published before the return to work announcement kicks in) makes sobering reasons and indicates, if there was any doubt, that social class remains a/the key risk factor with working class men 4 times more likely to die from the virus compared to middle class professionals

Coronavirus (COVID-19) related deaths by occupation, England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

Provisional analysis of deaths involving the coronavirus (COVID-19), by different occupational groups, among males and females aged 20 to 64 years in England and Wales.

www.ons.gov.uk

 

[cupid_stunt]

I don't know what to think frankly.

Congratulations, we are pleased to offer you the job of Prime Minister.

 

[bimble]

Went through a nearby small town this morning for first time since lockdown, noticed several shops not jut shut but totally empty, just took all their things and vacated. Made me realise that all the rent they won’t be paying to the commercial landlords is probably a big factor here too, the more businesses just give up the whole commercial rent thing collapses. Looked really sad, the sudden gaps in the high street.

 

[little_legs]

 

[killer b]

Went through a nearby small town this morning for first time since lockdown, noticed several shops not jut shut but totally empty, just took all their things and vacant. Made me realise that all the rent they won’t be paying to the commercial landlords is probably a big factor here too, the more businesses just give up the whole commercial rent thing collapses. Looked really sad, the sudden gaps in the high street.

this doesn't necessarily mean they've shut up shop entirely - they might have just removed the stock so there's no security issues.